Safe Speed Forums

The Times


So people in stolen cars will now be able to jump the lights safe in the knowledge that green will be delayed for the cross road, and the camera will result in the legal owner being prosecuted.

Who dreams up these halfbaked schemes?

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Brian

This is just spin to justify the continued and extended use of red light cameras. They have come up with a genuine way to improve safety at traffic lights, but they don't want to lose the opportunity to keep the revenue flowing in as a result.....

I agreee that there is much in the proposal which makes sense, in theory at least. However I've just thought of three other problems.

1. The idea that if there is "no traffic" approaching a light turning red, the other one can go green sooner, could pose serious safety problems for cyclists. If I ride up to a red light across conventional under-road sensors, often the sensors don't "see" me. I habitually wiggle the bike from side to side to increase the chance that I will be detected. This usually works. However under the new system, the light could turn amber just as I was passing the stop line, the system would not have "seen" me, and cars would start off on the cross road before I had had a chance to complete the crossing.

2. The idea that "the system can tell drivers that if they stick to a certain speed below the limit, they will find a succession of lights changing in their favour” sounds good in theory, but I doubt if it will work in practice. Take the A34 Kingsway in Burnage, South Manchester. The limit is 40, but most people realised that if they did just under 50, they would go through every light on green. The spacing of cross roads made this possible in both directions at this speed, and the phasing was adjusted to suit rush hour traffic. And just under 50 was a perfectly safe speed for that road. So Manchester Council decided to erect flashing signs saying "40 - slow down". Now enough people do exactly 40 that there is little if any chance of going through every light on green. So we all have to stop half way along.

3. The idea of controlling vehicle speed remotely keeps coming up, and is positively Orwellian. There have been cases where a car has started to pull out of a side road just as I was approaching it, and a quick burst of speed has got me past safely. If the system had immediately applied the brakes, I would probably have suffered a side on collision.

There are many improvements that can be made to traffic lights. However they must be carefully thought out first, and this proposal obviously hasn't been. One thing which could be done immediately would be to remove the red/amber phase. Very few countries still use this phase - not even the Irish Republic, I was surprised to find - and it serves no useful purpose. [I'm not sure if Switzerland and Germany still use it, but I can't think of any other European countries that ever did.] It was - I believe - originally introduced to allow drivers sufficient time to force the car into gear, so that they would be ready to proceed when the light went green. It should go the way of the licensing laws. Archaic, outdated nonsense.

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Brian

There are enough people now who's brains don't work fast enough to be ready to drive off at Green.

What would it be like if the "Wake Up Moron" red/amber was removed?

Ok so it only costs a few seconds, which is fine if you're at the front. Not so great when you're well back in a long queue and you have to wait through an extra cycle of the lights because some wally dithered around for an eternity on the green light.


Just a thought

I fully agree that I need and will remain to have full control over my speed. Remote speed control would be lethal and I one will be fitted to my car over my dead body.

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I like the red&amber, it gives you two chances to see that the lights are changing so reducing the possibility of not noticing and people behind getting annoyed. But it should usually be linked to the opposing amber light so there is no all-red annoyance phase.

Since when have traffic lights had anything to do with safety anyway? They are purely about control.

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Andrew.

Nedsram, I actually live on this road albeit a bit further down in Didsbury. I have often noticed how I seem to be greeted at every junction with a red light - now I know why! I also have the great scenic view from my living room of a red light camera on one of the junctions Now that '40 - Slow Down' VAS thing is very annoying, esp on a road where up to 60 is safe. But I'd rather have that than a speed camera.

*Just realised what I'm saying here. I'm a local resident and should be campaiging for a 20mph limit, speed bumps and a speed camera every 50 yards on 'our' road.

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

The point I was trying to make was that if it went green at the time it now goes red/amber, you would have a potential extra two seconds or so of "throughput". It works fine almost everywhere else in the world, so why not here?

One problem with red/amber is that people's brains seem to be programmed to expect it. When a green left arrow suddenly appears, often the lead driver doesn't register it, and somebody behind has to toot before he gets the message that the light has changed to green. Which seems to run counter to your argument.

The trend in my area recently, whenever traffic lights have been upgraded, has been to increase considerably the all-red period. If you asked, they would probably say that this was for "safety reasons".

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Brian

Yes that will solve everything.

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Brian

60 on Kingsway, don't make me laugh...

Why not? Kingsway's quite a long road. I'd agree most sections, most of the time 60 is not a good idea. But certain sections at certain times, 60 would be fine - there are long straight stretches with clear visibility.

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?

Why do people jump lights in the first place? In my city they are so inefficient and cause so much congestion and disruption that people disregard and hate them. Arriving at the junction a second too late at my local junction can result in a five minute delay at rush hour, or one minute minimum in the early hours thanks to recent remodelling. As a result more people jump the lights than in the past when the lights were more efficient.

Make traffic lights more efficient. Switch them off outside of peak times. Don't install traffic lights on quiet local roads that don't need them.

Ever been to Lisieux? Last time we were there, they had switched all traffic lights to flashing amber (as do many other places in France outside peak times). Unlike here, there were give way or priority signs attached to the lights so that it was clear who had priority if the lights were on flashing amber. So people behaved as if it was a junction without traffic lights but with give way signs then? You have to be joking. It was absolute mayhem.

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Brian

Nemesis, I know this is two years too late, but I just had to pick up on the fact that, soon after this discussion, they installed a northbound Gatso near Mauldeth Road.

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Brian

Most of EU do this. I admit it seems to work very well.


We have noted that your area .. Manchester.. seems to have replaced red light cams with Redspeed /monitrons which our origin/pogo doo-dahs pick up and warn on to origin technologies - who are really rather good

By the way .. the gadget does not at all mean we "manipulate". it just lets us know in good time .. sufficient time to glance at the dash for the essential check over.. to double check as we have to do these days as a camera does not see what a real policeman or the fair minded professional one does. Jobsworthy idiots .. they exist. I admit that I can count these on hand's fingers from own experience... but the press "worry such tails as really wild felines worry the carcass of a gazelle "

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