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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 00:12 
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http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2009/03/25/liverpool-teen-gets-a-speeding-ticket-for-her-stationary-car-100252-23228494/

Yet again the infallible system is flawed. At least on this occasion they withdrew but not before refusing to show the photographs until she pleaded not guilty.

Personally as it is often difficult to know your exact movements 2 weeks ago they should damn well routinely issue the photographs. If they can't provide the photographic evidence (2 photos with timings etc) with the FPN then it shouldn't be legally enforceable.

What was the "operator error"?

How many other innocent people have been prosecuted and paid up in similar cases?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 00:47 
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If she wasn’t driving her car and it was parked up when the recording was taken then this is simply victimisation, and proof that these instruments are not what they are made out to be. The operator error in my mind is that he tried it on and was found out.

Going by this article they can just go round taking pictures of any car they feel like, send the victim a letter through the post and hope they are stupid enough not to notice. How would you know? You would be rattling your brain to think where you had been, and whether you could remember seeing a camera while out driving.

I didn’t realise the British people could be so gullible. When are they going to wake up and realise that this whole Safety Camera debacle is one of the biggest scams going.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 01:24 
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The camera in question is a fixed, unmanned gatso. From that I can only assume the operator’s error was not to check the secondary evidence given within the two photographs – the car couldn’t even have been on the graduation marks :roll:
I suspect the camera flashed in response to a different car, that one either being over the trigger speed or the vibrations from it causing the shutter effect (dodgy gatso).


This does bring up a valid point: how many drivers can be so sure of what they were doing 1-2 weeks earlier. This woman was fortunate because she knew for a fact the car can’t have been in use at that time; wrongly caught drivers can’t make that deduction :x

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 09:05 
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Steve wrote:
The camera in question is a fixed, unmanned gatso. From that I can only assume the operator’s error was not to check the secondary evidence given within the two photographs – the car couldn’t even have been on the graduation marks :roll:
I suspect the camera flashed in response to a different car, that one either being over the trigger speed or the vibrations from it causing the shutter effect (dodgy gatso).


This does bring up a valid point: how many drivers can be so sure of what they were doing 1-2 weeks earlier. This woman was fortunate because she knew for a fact the car can’t have been in use at that time; wrongly caught drivers can’t make that deduction :x


So the operator was blind ?
Whatever happened to the registration number ?
One presumes that they also check that as well as the timed rate of travel ?
Or maybe they just pick one out of a hat ?

Ahhh...so she was parked right in front of the unit....

Image

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 17:26 
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Steve wrote:
This does bring up a valid point: how many drivers can be so sure of what they were doing 1-2 weeks earlier. This woman was fortunate because she knew for a fact the car can’t have been in use at that time; wrongly caught drivers can’t make that deduction :x


I am beginning to think that I should carry a log book in my car and record every journey the same as we do with the company vehicles.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 09:18 
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Would the person looking at the photos not have noticed that the car was driverless?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:27 
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I’d have thought so myself, that’s why it made me wonder if they were using this (and others) as a test case to see if this girl (and others) had noticed. Maybe they've been doing this for quite some time. If it were me I’d definitely start noting where I’d been and the routes i'd taken in the future. It also makes me wonder how many people have paid up without realising they were wrongly caught. It’s an easy thing to do when you think about it.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:16 
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adam.L wrote:
Would the person looking at the photos not have noticed that the car was driverless?


They work for a camera partnership!! What on earth made you think that this is in anyway unusual? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 13:19 
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adam.L wrote:
Would the person looking at the photos not have noticed that the car was driverless?

Possibly not. The camera taking photos from behind and from an elevated angle could put the driver out of line of sight of the camera.

I would be much more concerned about the operator not being able to spot the car was not on the graduation marks!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 13:54 
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Around 7-14 days later they post a request for the money and withhold the evidence to back it up. Your position is likely to be hopelessly weak as you may not even know if you past the speed trap in question on that day. You are threatened with the full weight of the state to impose extra costs and penalties if you choose to contest the proposed fine and points. If you choose to contest it you know you are unlikely to get a fair hearing.

As I stated at the top the FPN should only be valid when delivered with 2 pictures (or video) with appropriate timings. This would allow you to check the number plate and it is your car and not some clone - you may even be able to tell who was driving. You can check the distance and times to calculate the speed or in this case whether you are moving at all!

Even if it was all fully automated it could never be guaranteed to be absolutely 100% reliable and as it is there is some fallible human no doubt under pressure to process so many an hour. Mistakes are inevitable and yet the accused is bullied in to accepting the charge regardless of innocence or guilt.

Without being provided evidence other than a FPN is purely a state sponsored extortion racket.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 15:11 
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I'm more worried about how they thought the car proceeded through a tree into a parking bay at 37mph.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 15:38 
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What a shame she didnt let it go to court! Ask for the photos, then just send them a letter stating she was unable to identify the driver but it wasn't me. This goes back to my freedom of information request on photo checking process. They failed to check the cars movement against the white lines painted on the road. The secondary check did not happen.

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 19:30 
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They do appear to shoot themselvs in the foot at times :popcorn:

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