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 Post subject: Scam rules....
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 19:48 
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Location: Saltburn, N. Yorks
I've not seen this before; scamera and speed limit signs in the same view as the scamera!

Signing Safety Cameras
Safety camera signing requirements are set out in the Handbook of Rules and Guidance for the National Safety Camera Programme for England and Wales 2006/07, which reflects the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2002.

Ministers have made a commitment that enforcement within the National Safety Camera Programme will be highly visible and drivers will be made fully aware of the presence of safety cameras. The camera and speed limit signs must be clearly visible to drivers and not obscured by other street furniture or hanging branches etc. Ministers want drivers to be fully aware of the speed limit at all times, but especially where camera enforcement takes place. The Handbook of Rules and Guidance for the National Safety Camera Programme for England and Wales 2006/07 required that from end June 2006 the speed limit and camera warning signs should be co-located where permitted and practicable, and also that for fixed cameras this must allow the speed limit sign and camera sign to be visible to the driver in the same view as the camera.The Handbook of Rules and Guidance for the National Safety Camera Programme 2006/07:


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 Post subject: Re: Scam rules....
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 08:13 
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It is a rule, try enforcing it. :(
Total unregulated ancharcy

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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 Post subject: Re: Scam rules....
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:56 
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Oscar wrote:
I've not seen this before; scamera and speed limit signs in the same view as the scamera!

Signing Safety Cameras
Safety camera signing requirements are set out in the Handbook of Rules and Guidance for the National Safety Camera Programme for England and Wales 2006/07, which reflects the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2002.

Ministers have made a commitment that enforcement within the National Safety Camera Programme will be highly visible and drivers will be made fully aware of the presence of safety cameras. The camera and speed limit signs must be clearly visible to drivers and not obscured by other street furniture or hanging branches etc. Ministers want drivers to be fully aware of the speed limit at all times, but especially where camera enforcement takes place. The Handbook of Rules and Guidance for the National Safety Camera Programme for England and Wales 2006/07 required that from end June 2006 the speed limit and camera warning signs should be co-located where permitted and practicable, and also that for fixed cameras this must allow the speed limit sign and camera sign to be visible to the driver in the same view as the camera.The Handbook of Rules and Guidance for the National Safety Camera Programme 2006/07:

Now it is 2009, almost 2010, the Safety Camera Rules for 2006-2007 have no relevance; the clue is in the title.

All DfT "Rules" ended on 31st March 2007; after that date Guidance replaced the rules.

You would note in the Preface and on page 23 of the 06/07 rule book that there was a statement saying that non-adherence to the rules and guidance formed no defence to a speeding offence, a section of the handbook that was often ignred by those who chose to use it as a defence.


Some partnerships will use the guidance strictly and maintain signs as suggested, others believe that such signing undermines the speed limit signing restricting speed management to the location of the speed enforcement sites; there is merit in both views but I would say very little merit in signing speed enforcement systems


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 Post subject: Re: Scam rules....
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 17:11 
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Location: Saltburn, N. Yorks
Sorry I touched my keyboard...... :cry:


Forgot scam units make the rules up as they go along and sod common-sense! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Scam rules....
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 17:18 
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Oscar wrote:
Forgot scam units make the rules up as they go along and sod common-sense! :wink:

Mmm. Some of their staff are liars and charlatans, or so I've heard. (Actually no, that was in 2006/7.... ;))

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)


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 Post subject: Re: Scam rules....
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 21:04 
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Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Oscar wrote:


Forgot scam units make the rules up as they go along and sod common-sense! :wink:


Thgought it was all about "Guidelines " -for the obediance of wise men ,and ignores (when siutable ) of SCPs

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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 Post subject: Re: Scam rules....
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 21:16 
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The old rules only allowed netting off (they were never law); that scheme was ended April 07. Now those rules are 'recommendations'.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign


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 Post subject: Re: Scam rules....
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:50 
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It is available here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/dr_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_067427.pdf

Just after para 49 it says:
"This camera signing, visibility and conspicuity guidance has no bearing on the
enforcement of offences. Non-compliance with this guidance does not provide any
mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence committed under current UK law."

It also says:
"6. This Circular provides guidance and best practice advice on the deployment of speed
and red-light cameras in these circumstances after 1 April 2007. The guidance does not
restrict or fetter the police’s discretion to enforce covertly anywhere, at any time."

Probably the least quoted sections in the document.


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 Post subject: Re: Scam rules....
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 23:17 
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Quote:
PRE-ENFORCEMENT CHECKS
Non-compliance with the Traffic Regulation Order requirements or speed limit signing
requirements may mean that the speed limit is unenforceable.
35. Whatever locally agreed deployment strategy is adopted, there are a number of preenforcement
checks that are recommended before camera enforcement commences:
• Ensure that the speed limit is appropriate – the Department published guidance
on setting local speed limits in August 2006 (see paragraph 12).
• Ensure that the Traffic Regulation Order (where applicable) is legal and correct
– unless a road has been designated special road status (i.e. a motorway), speed
limits are implemented either by virtue of the provision of a system of street lights
(restricted road status) or through Traffic Regulation Order. If a Traffic
Regulation Order is required, this should be reviewed to ensure that it is still
appropriate and lawful.
• Ensure signing is lawful and correct – traffic authorities are required to ensure
that speed limit and camera signing complies with the statutory requirements
prescribed in TSRGD, or as specially authorised.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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