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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 22:41 
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http://www.spectator.co.uk/clivedavis/4 ... eras.thtml

:bunker:


Spectator wrote:
In defence of speed cameras
Friday, 10th July 2009
The Evening Standard's green columnist speaks up for the gadgets that motorists love to hate:


Opponents of cameras — and many on the internet are obsessive — are fond of quoting studies that supposedly show speed as the causal factor in only a fraction of crashes. In fact, an oft-quoted Transport Research Laboratory paper relied on alleged causes written down on forms at the scene by police officers; it's pretty obvious that accidents put down to being “in a hurry” instead of speed were mostly a question of driving too fast...

But cameras aren't the only answer — because breaking the speed limit isn't the only problem...The problem is the steady increase in dangerous driving. Some of it is by the estimated 400,000 uninsured drivers in the capital...The net effect is roads so lawless that on visits to Paris and Istanbul, for example, I've been surprised at how well behaved the traffic seems.We're more on a par with Beirut, I'd say. The only way to change that behaviour is by zero tolerance.




Hang on - he's saying :rotfl: Speed cams don't work. OY Greenshed! They don'rt stop the dangerous - they rather add more danger and don't deliver safety. Your SPectatator greeny sock puppet would appear to agree with .. errrrr :hehe: most regulars to safespeed :popcorn:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 07:22 
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Quote:
estimated 400,000 uninsured drivers


Then that. per Abercrombie, is 400,000 very safe drivers. :twisted: To be serious: are there any statistics which demonstrate that uninsured drivers are either more or less likely to be involved in accidents.?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:27 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Quote:
estimated 400,000 uninsured drivers


Then that. per Abercrombie, is 400,000 very safe drivers. :twisted: To be serious: are there any statistics which demonstrate that uninsured drivers are either more or less likely to be involved in accidents.?

Various sources puts the national figure at circa 1 to 1.5 million (5% of all vehicles), so it seems the capital must be somewhat over-represented when it comes to uninsured driving. Could this be anything to do with evading the hugely punitive CC charge?

There is nothing in RCGB2007.
I did pick up this within the recent DfT consultation document:
Quote:
We estimate that uninsured and untraced drivers kill 160 people and injure 23,000 every year.

160 out of ~ 2800 would be 5.7%.

Of course the 5.7% figure includes those untraced, so the uninsured portion would be lower than that, but I doubt it would be much lower because those uninsured are far more likely to hit and run; so uninsured drivers may seem to be about evenly represented in the crash stats.
Then there is the factor that uninsured drivers would cover a lot less mileage than the typical insured driver (commuters, works drivers) for fear of being caught by ANPR and getting stung at any time (by real traf pol) even without committing a 'driving' offence. So in terms of exposure, I think it is safe to claim that uninsured drivers must be significantly over-represented in the stats.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3587125.stm

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:32 
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The main problem with insurance is that it is too expensive. When you start out your looking at 3.5 k just for an average car. I'd expect tank insurance for that money.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 07:33 
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Flynn wrote:
The main problem with insurance is that it is too expensive. When you start out your looking at 3.5 k just for an average car. I'd expect tank insurance for that money.


I think that there might be a good case for subsidising the policies of newly qualified drivers. After all a good chunk of my motor premium goes towards subsidising uninsured drivers. Perhaps something like the student loan scheme with the loan being paid back by a surcharge on their VED over their driving career.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 08:42 
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You know that might work - but would require a lot of admin all the same. :roll:


There was a suggestion about placing a third party surcharge on the price of petrol. I happen to think this to be non-viable option on the basis that many of us with fully comp policies would be paying umpteen times over :roll: und those who do low mileage would not really be contributing fairly to any insurance scheme und may be liable for an accident for which everyone else foots the bill.

Also - as with all government taxes (as this would be yet another tax :banghead:) - no guarantees that adequate funding from the collected extra tax would go into any insurance fund.

Thus .. I think some carrot to induce further training for new drivers - by way of a realistic discount - may help.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 09:45 
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Also - as with all government taxes (as this would be yet another tax :banghead:) - no guarantees that adequate funding from the collected extra tax would go into any insurance fund.


Which is why I suggested a loan, administered by a private company, the way student loans are.

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