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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 00:17 
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Manchester Evening News wrote:

Woman killed in police crash

20/ 6/2008


A WOMAN has been killed and her five-year-old niece hurt after their car was involved in a smash with a police van on a 999 call.

The woman, believed to be in her 30s, died in hospital following the accident in Salford, this afternoon.

The Ford Transit police van was answering an emergency call triggered by reports that men had been fighting.

The woman, from the Salford area, was taken to Hope Hospital immediately after the accident at 3.50pm but died shortly afterwards.

Her niece was taken to the same hospital but then transferred to Manchester Royal Children’s Hospital at Pendlebury with a suspected serious head injury.

Doctors carried out a scan and concluded the girl had suffered only superficial bruising.

She is said to be recovering well.

Injuries

The girl’s father, who was driving the car at the time, was also taken to hospital although his injuries were said to be ‘minor’.

Two police officers who were in the van also suffered minor injuries.

Greater Manchester Police has referred the case to the police watchdog, the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

The IPCC has sent its own investigator to examine the scene.

The dead woman and her niece were back-seat passengers in the Seat Ibiza when it was in collision with the police van at the junction of Green Lane and Cromwell Road, in Patricroft.

Roads around the crash site were closed off and are not expected to be re-opened until shortly before midnight.

Anyone who witnessed the collision is asked to call the Area 4 Road Policing Unit on 0161 856 7761.


and

MEN wrote:
Tribute to police crash woman

21/ 6/2008


THE parents of a Swinton woman who died in a crash with a police van on a 999 call have paid tribute to her.

Angela Elizabeth P, 38, was killed when the Seat Ibiza she was travelling in collided with a police van at about 3.50pm on Friday, June 20.

Her niece and her brother, who was driving the vehicle, were also injured in the collision.

In a joint statement Angela’s parents Gordon and Sylvia paid tribute to their daughter, who is sister to James and Peter.

They said: “She always showed a lot of love and affection and cared for all those who knew her. She will be deeply missed by all her family and especially her niece.”

The accident happened as Angela’s car was turning out of a junction onto Green Lane from Cromwell Road, in Patricroft. The car collided with a police van containing two police officers that was driving along Green Lane.

Angela, of, Swinton, sustained serious injuries. She was taken to Hope Hospital but later died.

D, who suffered bruising but is said to be recovering well, and her father, who suffered minor injuries to his arm and chest, remain in hospital.

The two police officers also suffered minor injuries and were taken to hospital as a precaution.

The driver of the vehicle has been suspended from driving duties pending further inquiries, which is standard procedure in road traffic collisions involving police vehicles, but has not been suspended from duty.

The matter has also been voluntarily referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission. IPCC investigators have been deployed and are looking into the incident but the full extent of the IPCC involvement will be determined over the next few days.

Police are appealing to anyone who witnessed the collision to call the Area 4 Road Policing Unit on 0161 856 7797.



HOWEVER ... these versions on the MEN's website are NOT as the one which headlined the paper today. The piece which went to press included comments from nearby residents who say

Quote:
1. The police van was on full blues and twos before and at the time of this accident.

2. They heard a loud bang. The fire service (station at end of this road) arrived within seconds and cut the injured free.
The firemen were heard to shout .. "We'd better get them out quick!"

3. The local resident also says that the driver was OK .. conscious. "The child was lifted out and put on a stretcher. They were clearly worried about the woman passenger. There were a couple of police women there. They were from the police van. They seemed to be OK. "

4. Another local resident said.. "It was bad. The car was an absolute mess. The road is a nightmare here. You CANNOT see around the bend on Green Lane


:scratchchin: I hear from the in-laws that the bend in question is a sharp one. If you are pulling out on a right hand turn - the driver, biker and cyclist cannot see approaching cars that easily. Many inch forwards to get a clearer view. I do not quite understand how the driver did not hear the sirens though before pulling out.


Photo in the paper shows damage to the front across to the offside wing of the police van and the crumpled rear off-side of the Seat . This suggests that the police were heading along the "straight" towards the A57and this bend. Maybe the driver was concentrating more on the blind bend ...and perhaps did not take that crucial final check in the other direction to note a van "on a shout" closing in on him? :scratchchin: My sisters say it's some time since they last used that road .. but they seem to think that traffic lights were placed at this junction in recent past because many use Cromwell Road to beat the jam on the A57 down to the M60/Trafford Centre... .


Condolences to all involved all the same.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 23:36 
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The best that I can understand is that the car pulled out then the van hit him on his rear o/side to the vans front o/side ? Does that sound right ?
In which case his manoeuvre was almost complete (unless he rushed out, or floored it to move out of the way - having seen the oncoming van).
I am unclear about which road /junction we are talking about. I put Green Lane Salford into google earth and easily found the road but there are several junctions and roads - is it the Cromwell road junction to the B5231 (Green Lane). There is a buss stop to his right if he was pulling out onto the Green Lane from C Rd. There are trees which may have created a shadow (generally increasing better contract and so clearer vision.

However it still looks fairly 'straight' forward unless we are talking further south from King Edward Street or Princess Street, when the pull out would be much harder with the bend to the left (from the side road perspective) giving only limited vision.
But if the above is true re:o/side front to o/side rear then it v unclear how he could not have seen it coming as it would have been from his right (not the bend direction). So was he turning right ?
Do we know ?
I can see the fire station - v close !
I also wonder how cops on a 'run' can be so unready for a potential junction, and then to continue enough to not manage to avoid the accident too.
Rather puzzling - seems like an all round inattention to me at the moment.

Terribly sad especially for the dad, and the child. My sincerest sympathies to them. I am sure the cop driver is in shock too.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 21:17 
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Both my sisters sent me a lengthy e-mail with these photos.




Image


They said they thought there were some new traffic lights. These serve a housing development.

This area was once the hub ot North West manufacturing and engineering. They went into recession under Thatcher.. struggled along and finally were hit in 2000 by the cost of exporting and a general deciine in heavy engineering at the time. :roil:





Image


This photo was taken before the junction in question ..but in the view of the on-coming vehicle per Ju-Ju - my other sister down there/.


Image


This photo was taken by Ju-Ju's husband as he approached this same junction. He took the photo to show what the driver hit would have seen.

Image


This is the approach to the T junction as taken from passenger seat.

Ju Ju took it with a Canon Power shot camera. Decent camera .. but not quite an EOS :wink:

I resized these photos.

I have not pasted up what my family down in the 'burb think. I will leave to SS collective to look at these photos.

My opinion? I think a very tragic incident and do not think either to blame.. but I KNOW they will do this.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 19:23 
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Update on this story. :roll:

BBC wrote:
Officer faces death crash charge

The crash happened in Patricroft, Salford
A police officer is to face a charge of causing the death of a woman who was killed in a crash involving a police van in Greater Manchester.

Angela Purcell, 38, was in a Seat Ibiza which collided with the vehicle as it answered an emergency call in Patricroft, Salford, on 20 June, 2008.

Pc John Hannan, the driver of the van, was charged following an investigation managed by the police watchdog.

The 31-year-old will appear before Bury magistrates on 22 September.

Officers injured

The collision happened at the junction of Green Lane and Cromwell Road in Patricroft.

Ms Purcell's five-year-old niece and a man who was driving were also injured in the crash.

Both officers in the police vehicle suffered minor injuries and were taken to hospital as a precaution.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) managed the Greater Manchester Police (GMP) investigation into the incident.

It revealed on Thursday that Pc Hannan had been summonsed to face a charge of causing death by dangerous driving.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manc ... 212857.stm


Of course, one feels deep sympathy for all involved... especially the grieving family.. and for the officer involved too.

But whilst such stories show that the police are subject to the same laws as the MOP and it was the IPCC who passed the file to the CPS who decided to charge.. with "causing death by dangerous driving. ... I have to ponder over a few things..

Every case of any tragedy seems to result in the driver being charged with "dangerous driving" whereas in the past.


By this I mean..


- We used to read "charged with careless driving"

These days? All too often - not enough evidence to prove the driving was "dangerous" but the accused is often found guilty of "careless driving". all the same . with the net result that the bereaved see as "rough justice to them" and, importantly for summary justice/harsh lessons learned perhpas.. the accused still feeling "ruddy awful" :roll; in the real world out there ....

This comment does not mean I would want to let seriously dangerous twazaks off the hook... and my opinions on some rather notorious cases - sadly/regrettably involving police officers who did behave - well I guess "red mistedly" describes it most tactfully :( :( - remain unchanged. :popcorn:


All the same .. I hope a fair trial. My sister provided the photos I uploaded to this thread as this road is fairly local to my brother and two sisters down in the big 'burb of Manchester. :winkk: From these "sources" - I am informed that they have "used the road as a sort of rat run to escape M602/M60/J13 mayhem" in the past... and turned off the A57 to cut to Green Lane and Worsley "proper." They say this right hand turn into Green Lane is tricky. Green Lane can be "deceptively quiet despite modern residentials and industrial modernisation mix. The junction is a bit "set back" which means the emerging cars have to "tiptoe the nose out" to get a good view of each direction :yikes:


On a right turn .. I am told that traffic comes through a narrowing of a fairly narrow road from beneath a low railway bridge. My sisters and their husbands all tell us that you see a clear road ahead from this approach.. and only locals would be aware of the "potential noser danger" From the left at the T junction .. there's a failry blind bend at which traffic lights were set up to allow traffic from a new housing development access Green Lane and access to Monton/Eccles/Manchester and M60 .etc. .

Somehow .. I think the officer has a defence on this one. :scratchchin: Blind junction and he was on blues/twos too. To me .. it comes across as the Astra driver made a fatal mistake and pulled out.. based purely on the way the original article was written (when read again :wink: after a while ) and the information supplied by those who really know the road.... as it's one frequented often by the family who have a canal boat moored at Barton.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 19:48 
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We had a case in our local paper about a lorry driver who turned right across the road but didn't see an old couple coming towards him (allegedly).
His turning speed was only about 10MPH. He was charged with "causing death by dangerous driving".

Now to me his driving was obviously CARELESS as he (allegedly) didn't see the approaching car, BUT was it dangerous? He wasn't tearing along at a breakneck speed and took the corner without any regard for other traffic or took a blind bend on the wrong side of the road which is obviously dangerous even if you don't hit another vehicle BUT Is turning across a road at 10MPH "dangerous driving", obviously it can and did cause death if you didn't see an approaching car, as in this case, but is it DANGEROUS?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 23:14 
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graball wrote:
We had a case in our local paper about a lorry driver who turned right across the road but didn't see an old couple coming towards him (allegedly).
His turning speed was only about 10MPH. He was charged with "causing death by dangerous driving".

Now to me his driving was obviously CARELESS as he (allegedly) didn't see the approaching car, BUT was it dangerous? He wasn't tearing along at a breakneck speed and took the corner without any regard for other traffic or took a blind bend on the wrong side of the road which is obviously dangerous even if you don't hit another vehicle BUT Is turning across a road at 10MPH "dangerous driving", obviously it can and did cause death if you didn't see an approaching car, as in this case, but is it DANGEROUS?

Therein lies the problem. The policies of the last 10-15 years have confused the interpretation so much that 2 or more incidents of the same nature may have just as many different interpretations. They may also be dealt with in many different ways depending on who's jurisdiction the incident takes place in.

Consistency is what is needed in making, interpretation and enforcement of laws. Something that has been MIA over the last 12 years or more.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 08:59 
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I'd say the car pulling out in front was "careless" - but not necessarily dangerous unless he simply did not bother to look or stop in the first place! :roll: in graball's report of something "similar" such as a T-bone type collision at a T junction.


But in this case - the driver of the car which pulled out in front of the police van (which allegedly per the original story was on blues/twos/full siren) has not been charged with anything. The police driver who was .. well - above the 30 mph speed limit - was charged with dangerous driving. The road in question runs by Bridgewater Canal at its start in Monton. I hear there is a blind bend and then a three quarter mile straight until the bend just past this T-junction where the accident occurred. I do not know the speed of this car. Going off what I have been told about this road - family down there reckon 45 mph-ish would be safe for the averagely competent with a COAST led core. If the driver was 50 mph or above on this 30 mph - then that might be why he's being done for "dangerous" :scratchchin:



However, ... Locals know the junction requires a "nose out to look out" and perhaps local and trained police officers should know this likewise? :scratchchin:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 09:24 
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http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... =UTF8&z=12


http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 13&iwloc=D

If you zoom into this link - you will get the lay-out of the road in the vicinity better. Looks like there are some sharpish curves at the railway bridge heading towards the T junction.,


http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc ... 3&t=h&z=20




Patricroft, Green Lane/Patricroft Station (Stop B) (Stop B)


Patricroft, Green Lane/Police Station (NW-bound)


Patricroft, Green Lane/Mitchell Shackleton (S-bound)


Patricroft, Liverpool Road/Green Lane (nr BANK)


Also this shows a photo of the bridge where the road narrows. The T junction is just about 100 yards or so from this photo.


http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=7678371


The next photo? Tis where one of the gang moors his boat! It's also close to a known pub/trouble spot... :roll: and where I think they may have been heading.
http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=7678344&page=1

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
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But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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