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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 21:16 
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This one - in a location I am familiar with - sounds like a classic case where a poorly-sighted junction and reckless driving by yoofs is likely to lead to the introduction of a speed camera:

Safety camera green light on danger road

Quote:
SPEED cameras are to be installed at a notorious accident blackspot which has claimed nine lives in 11 years.

Following a groundswell of public concern over a spate of smashes, road safety chiefs have confirmed they will erect cameras on Lees Road — between Clarksfield and Lees.

It’s not yet known when they will be installed but more traffic calming measures, such as central islands, could follow.

While speed cameras remain a controversial option for many motorists who view them as a cash cow for the Government, council chiefs stress the safety of the public is the top priority.

Highways officers completed a detailed investigation into the busy road following the death of 15-year-old Chris Dale, who was hit by a car on June 13, close to the junction with Wellyhole Street.

Their report examined past collisions and instances of vehicles failing to give way at the junction.

The findings showed that the number of accidents and traffic speeds have fallen significantly in recent years but new measures should be considered.

Oldham East and Saddleworth MP Phil Woolas had fired off letters to Oldham Council and road safety groups calling for improved safety measures.

He has now received a letter from Drivesafe, the Greater Manchester Casualty Reduction Partnership, confirming that the council’s request for the cameras has been successful.

Project manager Mike Downes said every effort would be made to have them up and running at the earliest opportunity.

Mr Woolas added: “I’m very satisfied they have acted on my concerns. This announcement will save lives and stop the pain and suffering of families.

“I want to pay tribute to Oldham Youth Council (who campaigned for safety measures). Sometimes it takes young people to tell the rest of us what’s important.

“The idea that speed cameras exist as a surrogate tax is nothing more than bar room gossip. Speed cameras are proven to save lives.”

One of the road’s worst fatalities took place in December, 2003, when 16-year-old pals and budding footballers Christian Leyden and Anthony Hughes died after the car they were travelling in was hit at the bottom of Wellyhole Street. There have been numerous non-fatal accidents this year.

Councillor Mark Alcock said: “I know some people have reservations about these cameras, but the emphasis here is on accident prevention.

“Speed cameras were part of a package of measures which our report outlined last month.

“We are still looking at providing additional central islands, which would control the path of vehicles and offer better crossing facilities for pedestrians.”

And no doubt, despite other safety measures being installed at the same time, the cameras will get all the credit for any reduction in accidents :x

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 21:55 
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Isn't it ultimately irrelevant, at an abstract and humanist level, if the net result is a reduction in accidents and saves lives?



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 22:12 
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mpaton2010 wrote:
... if the net result is a reduction in accidents and saves lives?

That's a big if.

Peter's response to it rightly highlights one of several confounding factors that must first be considered before any claim of camera effectiveness can be accepted.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 23:52 
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mpaton2010 wrote:
Isn't it ultimately irrelevant, at an abstract and humanist level, if the net result is a reduction in accidents and saves lives?



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In the same vein though, is it not morally incumbent upon the authorities to select the method with the greatest chance of saving lives? They are still "considering" engineering changes, but they have no hesitation in planting a camera there! If cameras generated no net revenue, I'd be so much less sceptical :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 02:34 
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Utterly shameful that as they say it took a youth club to point out to them that 'numerous accidents' needed attention - in 'doing something' (and this must never be 'anything') the trouble is that applying engineering (well islands - 1 seems to already exist - perhaps not in the best location), and to apply one or several cameras makes them appear very underconfident about what they are needing to do ? What a shambles!

Precisely wrong, where is the good road research and possible solutions!
The cameras yes will slow people but it will also cause a terrible distraction to the area - not a very well thought out solution ! If they really want to earn the 'casualty reduction' they want to call themselves, then they need to understand research, how to implement proper engineering and understand driver behaviour first.
Understanding the whole road system at this junction and looking at who, when and why accidents happen, and if some extra education and good engineering redesign of the junction, is necessary to help with vision, and junction function and safe travel through it. Maybe a roundabout might help here but research is needed. I fail to see how any cameras are going to help people observe the junction or oncoming traffic any better, they will just provide a distraction and potentially lead to more incidents.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 20:21 
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I need to check mit Ted und look at the news snips on HIS computer (und this ist a family und all our computers go through a server machine here as we are not stupid mit our money und we have note that all our machines have same IP address as result .. we learn a lot more in Arizona from our new on-line pals :lol: )


Anyway .. on a chat mit my Ted (the Norhtwest region newshound who always tried to seek out a good story which reflect the nation :bow:) - we think we have already post a series of news reports on this area - 90% of which involved a stolen car.. unlicenced driver.. drunk or driugged driver [i]und NOT what the politically correct wish to hear but which happen to be the saddest und most tragic matter of fact - the DRUNK OR DRUGGED pedestrian - but not one of these could be classed as speed per se und if this was the case - then why did the local Oldham/Rochdale/Bury?Bolton/Manchester press NOT report as "speed kill scooop?? I tell you why because they were not speed incidents but CHAV thug incidents. of course.


By the way /..we watch a re-run of a Fifht Gear prog und they confirm that decent road engineering .. COAST awareness und basically ALL the things IG say und we support .. sAVE lives und that merely reducing a speed limit may save on kinetic forces - it does not und cannot possibly prevent an accident nor serious injury whereas decent training und engineering can - LONG TERM!

By the way.. they had TRL backing them up as I recall from the repeat on my fave channles which are mostly CAR related :lol: (Cannot think why.. I think in car terms und my fave night perfume happen to be Chanel und my daytime preference ist DIESEL! (und we have been known to purchase Paul Smith designer products - but I think it ist the name what matter there :wink:

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