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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 07:43 
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By Daily Mail Reporter wrote:
Elderly drivers should be banned from motorways, says road safety charity
Last updated at 12:21 PM on 18th January 2010
Elderly drivers should be banned from motorways and busy dual carriageways to prevent accidents, a motoring group has urged.
Road safety charity the Institute for Advanced Motorists argued that older drivers should be protected from roads with a 70mph speed limit.
The call comes following analysis by the institute of police crash data over seven years, which showed that older drivers were safer than younger motorists on 'local' roads.
Research revealed that elderly drivers were at increased risk on motorways or where traffic was moving quickly (file picture)
But the same research found elderly drivers were at increased risk on motorways or where traffic was moving quickly.
'We do not think this should be a blanket ban,' Neil Greig, the IAM's director of policy, told The Daily Telegraph.

<TODAY'S POLL> as at 06:35am Should elderly drivers be banned from motorways?
* Yes30%
* No70%
'But where there is medical evidence that a motorist could pose a risk to themselves and others, this could be a sensible compromise.
'We are not talking about an arbitrary age limit, this would have to be done on a case-by-case basis and following medical advice.'
A driving licence is currently valid until the age of 70, after which it has be renewed every three years, with motorists required to take a questionnaire.
An overhaul of these arrangements is expected before the next election with drivers likely to be required to certify their fitness to be on the road every ten years.

I think the proposal is silly and pointless and neigh un-enforceable.
We need traffic police on the road so that those that are not able to drive appropriately need to be pulled over and questioned and if necessary sent on a 'refresher driving course' or other appropriate action (eye test) etc.
Blanket rules like this penalise good drivers totally un-necessarily and will probably not stop some from driving anyway.
I do think some thought to a or some courses that older folk can go on to help them drive better as they have failing faculties and if necessary earlier eye and deaf tests to help. A driving / riding course designed to help will provide them with an honest look at their driving and where they can improve or perhaps gently be told that they are not reaching a good standard and perhaps should consider their driving career is ending .... I do think medical test might be compulsory if a Policeman authorises ...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 09:46 
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As Claire says,
Age has nothing to do with ones ability to drive safely on any road. There are younger/middle aged people who are just as unsafe on motorways, urban or NSL roads as the elderly and every one is different.

I agree that drivers of all ages who seem to be "struggling" to maintain a safe speed or normal /safe road behaviour, should be "pulled" and if the driving is really bad should be retested to a degree but a blamket ban purely on age is ridiculous.

Of course, the only way we can do this is to have more Trafpol but the governments' easy/lazy answer is to ban people indiscriminately.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:21 
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The IAM comments seem to infer that age is automatically a bar to driving on fast roads, but I think that inability not frailty should be the concern.
Mainly the inability to react in good time to changing events, such as traffic changing lanes, and to confusion over which lane to actually be in....
That and the problem/s that many drivers have that do not regularly drive on multi-lane-high-speed roads....those being that your skillset is just not up-to-pace....sunday drivers again....driving one day a week does not give you the experience you need to drive properly on ordinary roads, let alone motorways.
Some focus on the REASON why SOME old[er] drivers have problems may be useful. For instance, many people (not only the old) have eyesight problems...cataracts comes to mind.
And attributing problems to the OLD driver is also masking the problems caused TO the old driver (and other ages) by the REAL problem drivers...those driving much too close and those who are so impatient that they overtake in any way they can.
Not to mention that every organisation now seems to favour shock-publicity as a tool to get attention.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:39 
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I’m not sure diverting the ‘seasoned’ from the safest roads (motorways) to more dangerous ones would result with a net (across the road network) reduction of accidents.

We all should have had mandatory motorway tuition. This alone would have gone a long way to building the necessary confidences and alleviating the fears of motorway speeds. Granted introducing such tuition now won’t directly help those who have already passed, but the newly qualified can lead by example (such as keeping left). Perhaps having a refresher, with some motorway tuition, once a certain age is reached would be a good idea.

I continue to be amazed that learners are banned from receiving motorway tuition such that a newly licensed driver can create and keep bad motorway habits throughout their lifetime (until it gets the better of them). In the first year or two following her test pass, my mum would always do whatever she could to avoid motorways – what kind of road tuition/safety policy results with a father having to show his licensed wife (and son) how to use a motorway?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 14:29 
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Steve wrote:
I’m not sure diverting the ‘seasoned’ from the safest roads (motorways) to more dangerous ones would result with a net (across the road network) reduction of accidents.


Exactly the thought that came to mind when I read the OP. I have occasionally thought about doing some advanced training with the IAM, however it is statements like this that really make me question if I would be wasting my time.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 16:54 
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Garbage reporting by the Mail and others as usual. This is what the IAM actually said....

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/item.htm?id=35834

Quote:
Drivers over 70 are no more likely to cause crashes than any other driver, and are considerably safer than younger drivers, according to a report published today by
the IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists).


Neil Greig, IAM Director of Policy and Research said: “The report contradicts the common assumption that older drivers are a danger on the roads. Just eight per cent of drivers are over 70 and they are involved in around four per cent of injury crashes; but of the 15 per cent of drivers who are in their teens and 20s, 34 per cent are involved in injury crashes.”


Older people rely heavily on their cars, and the ability to drive gives many older people better mobility and access to more activities. Men in their seventies make more trips as car drivers than men in their late teens and 20s.


Mr Greig added: “The IAM recommends that, rather than seeking to prevent older people from driving, we need to make them aware of the risks they face, and offer them driving assessments to help them cope with these risks.”


Greg Lewis of Age Concern/Help the Aged said: “We believe that where drivers wish to continue behind the wheel beyond the age of 70, only convincing reasons should
prevent them from doing so.”


Mr Lewis added: ““An elderly person’s risk of being killed or suffering a serious injury as a result of a road crash is between two and five times greater than that
of a younger person because of their increased physical frailty.”

Other key findings are:


• In the next 20 years the number of male drivers over 70 will double, female drivers will treble.
• Drivers over 70 are safer on bends and overtaking than 50 year olds, but are more at risk at roundabouts, junctions and slip roads on high speed roads.
• In some traffic situations, older drivers are less likely to be in a crash because they tend to adopt a more careful and restrained driving style.
• No particular age was identified where there is sudden increase in crash involvement.
• Older drivers self regulate and take fewer trips on motorways, in poor light or wet weather, or at peak times.
• Drivers over 85 are four times more likely to have caused a crash than to have been an innocent victim of one.
• Crashes in which older women are to blame peak about five years earlier than those for older men.

“The IAM strongly believes that there is no case for compulsory retesting of older drivers at an arbitrary age. More research is needed on the best age to renew driving licences and there needs to be a wider debate on the introduction of restricted licensing,” said Mr Greig.



Coinciding with the report, the IAM is launching 'Drivecheck55', a friendly means by which older drivers can have their driving assessed and be encouraged to improve it.



For a fee of a mere £35, drivers get a 60 minute drive with an IAM qualified examiner in their own car at a time to suit them. On completion they are given a comprehensive report on their driving.



Generally, older drivers 'self regulate'. They don't go out in bad weather or take unnecessary risks and often restrict their driving to daylight hours.



Nevertheless some gentle encouragement from a qualified IAM examiner can help make them aware of any bad habits they have got into or any failures in their observation and help them remain safe drivers for many years to come.



More on DriveCheck 55 at http://www.iam.org.uk/drivecheck55


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 17:02 
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teabelly wrote:
Garbage reporting by the Mail and others as usual. This is what the IAM actually said....

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/item.htm?id=35834


Quote:
...Just eight per cent of drivers are over 70 and they are involved in around four per cent of injury crashes; but of the 15 per cent of drivers who are in their teens and 20s, 34 per cent are involved in injury crashes.”

I bet those figures don’t account for the distance travelled for each age group. Those over 70 usually don’t have to commute to work…

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 17:09 
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Their analysis has holes but the reporting of what they said is even worse! Also if young people travel more on dangerous a and b roads then that could account for some of their extra representation in statistics. A lot of young people seem to die on rural roads in the wee small hours.

What is needed is someone to cross reference risk according to mileage driven, gender and types of road driven upon. Someone in another forum who knew an insurance actuary said the accident rate of female drivers was 4x that of male drivers but male drivers had much more serious accidents when they did crash so things kind of evened themselves out.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 19:03 
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Ageism ahoy!

Why not simply test people of all ages at regular intervals for driving skill, then let all who pass drive wherever they like?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 20:28 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Ageism ahoy!

Why not simply test people of all ages at regular intervals for driving skill, then let all who pass drive wherever they like?

Its my belief that you learn to drive the day you pass a test, I have both bike and car licenses with 20+years NCB why on earth would i require a test ? Im 51 (cough) :oops:
In my opinion IAM should be speaking with the insurance Co's who know all about high risk groups (reflected in NCBs)
Interesting info here about driving test pass rates,
http://www.driving-test-success.com/dsa ... _rates.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 21:11 
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I think any driver - made aware of the current requirements - ought to be happy to be subjected to some variant of the current test. If you can't pass the driving test, you shouldn't be driving.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 21:26 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Ageism ahoy!

Why not simply test people of all ages at regular intervals for driving skill, then let all who pass drive wherever they like?

Because that would involve a huge increase in bureaucracy and cost to individuals for proportionately very little benefit?

And, for those who advocate motorway training for everyone, how do you do it for people who live in Penzance or Inverness?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 22:10 
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PeterE wrote:
And, for those who advocate motorway training for everyone, how do you do it for people who live in Penzance or Inverness?

You don't! ;)
Licenses can be tiered in the same way as for those who choose to drive automatics or manuals.

As an aside, how do others manage it in other countries? (such as Germany where I believe 3 Autobahn lessons must be done before the test is allowed to be taken)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 22:13 
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But if motorways are the safest roads why do we need special tuition and testing to drive on them?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 22:19 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
But if motorways are the safest roads why do we need special tuition and testing to drive on them?

Special tuition isn't needed; just more than none at all (or preventing any at all) will do, so bringing it inline with other so-called 'special areas' of tuition.
Quick consideration of the: lane hoggers, tailgaters, panic breakers, gap leavers, incline slowers, last second slip dashers, slow joiners, will give some perspective.

The motorways can be still safer and more efficient, as well as ... here it comes ... handle higher speeds.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 22:47 
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Steve wrote:
PeterE wrote:
And, for those who advocate motorway training for everyone, how do you do it for people who live in Penzance or Inverness?

You don't! ;)
Licenses can be tiered in the same way as for those who choose to drive automatics or manuals.

As an aside, how do others manage it in other countries? (such as Germany where I believe 3 Autobahn lessons must be done before the test is allowed to be taken)


I could from years of practical experience suggest that the converse should be applied ( to make the tiering system look idiotic) -give city dwellers/motorway users tiered licences ,but BAR them from narrow windy country roads - where they creat a safety hazard by driving at innappropriatespeeds for the roads concerned .

Again -perhaps we should put a lower limit on motorway driving -to curb the hoon element from younger drivers .

But then -perhaps that's what this administration wants -it certainly worked on 4X4 -and allowed them to rais taxes on them ,once they got to the hated stage .
Perhaps we need a limit on the age of our legislators .
Perhaps a better way ,is to add a MINIMUM limit to motorways ( for cars ) and police it ( IF we've got any left) so that those dwadling ,(with no good reason) get picked up and sent for a test .And then proceed to add the MLM brigade to that list .

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 23:44 
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teabelly wrote:
Garbage reporting by the Mail and others as usual. This is what the IAM actually said....



Thanks, how do the press get away with that? :roll:

and how do I get to my age and still believe what they write :oops:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 01:58 
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http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/xsdataset.asp?vlnk=667&More=Y

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 02:03 
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Quote:
This improvement is linked to tighter government legislation on seatbelts and improved car design with crumple zones and airbags fitted as standard on many new models.
Source: Office for National Statistics


No mention of Cameras -can't be true then :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 02:30 
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Well I heard them on radio 2 on Jeremy Vine (but not JV last week - or this), I did put my points across to the researcher but they didn't call back.
They were asking for older drivers to be 'restricted' from motorways and dual carriageways.

I think considering this :
Quote:
Other key findings are:
• In the next 20 years the number of male drivers over 70 will double, female drivers will treble.
• Drivers over 70 are safer on bends and overtaking than 50 year olds, but are more at risk at roundabouts, junctions and slip roads on high speed roads.
• In some traffic situations, older drivers are less likely to be in a crash because they tend to adopt a more careful and restrained driving style.
• No particular age was identified where there is sudden increase in crash involvement.
Older drivers self regulate and take fewer trips on motorways, in poor light or wet weather, or at peak times.
• Drivers over 85 are four times more likely to have caused a crash than to have been an innocent victim of one.
• Crashes in which older women are to blame peak about five years earlier than those for older men.

The colour highlighted section especially, then if they are self regulating then most of the problem is resolved.
I agree there are those on the road that need a policeman to stop them and query their ability.
The last stat I saw that the BBC had promoted was that there were bands of accidents by age group that showed variable percentages of incidents with some groups better than others.

I do think it interesting that they mention a driving assessment but is not 55 either too old for bad habits to be truly resolved (although I agree with the attempt) and for the older driver that is too young to catch the older driver.
I like voluntary driving assessments but surely that ought to be run by the Government and at reduced or no cost. After all, all that money saved from less accidents would make it pay for itself several times over.
The 55yr old age group for the previously mentioned stats showed that 55yr age band (above & below) were the safest group !

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