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SafeSpeedv2
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 00:28 
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DfT Roads Minister Mike Penning Calls for opinions here
DfT wrote:
Motorcycle testing and training review

A review of the motorcycle testing and training regime was announced by Road Safety Minister Mike Penning on 8 June 2010.
The two-part motorcycle test was introduced in April 2009 to meet the requirements of the second EU Directive on driving licences.
The Minister ordered the review after listening to concerns from motorcycle groups and visiting a test centre to look at the testing procedure in more detail. Ways to improve training will also be considered.

Mike Penning said:

"Road safety is a top priority and the testing and training on offer is vital in our work to cut the disproportionately high numbers of motorcyclists killed and injured on our roads each year.
"It is clear there are concerns among the motorcycling community about the safety of the new test's off-road module. There have also been complaints about the difficulty for riders in some areas of accessing the off-road test centres.
"That is why I am today asking riders, safety groups and motorcycle industry representatives to come forward with their ideas for how testing and training can be improved to ensure we produce safe, confident and responsible riders."

The new test was introduced in order to meet the requirements of the second EU Directive on driving licences. While most elements in the off-road module 1 test are required by the Directive, there may be scope to make some changes to the way in which the test is carried out.
Views are welcome from motorcycle riders, trainers, road safety groups, the wider public and others on what aspects of the motorcycle test should be looked at, including how and where they think motorcycle testing might best and most safely be carried out.
The precise scope and terms of reference of the review will be determined following discussions with motorcycle groups and other interested parties, with the aim of concluding the review by the autumn.

Views should be submitted to the Department for Transport (RUSD4consultation@dft.gsi.gov.uk) by 31 July.
So what do we think are good ideas ?
What makes a basic safe biker ? Are those skills based on limited time on fundamental skills, some good sound knowledge and encouragement to good attitude and access to ongoing training and advice.

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diy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:37 
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To be honest I think they got it about right with the two part CBT and DAS or 125 test. I think the could scrap all the other requirements because a Learner has a lot to learn as it is and the off road testing is really pushing beyond what the learner test should be about. i.e. a licence to continue learning unsupervised.

Perhaps what they should do is offer a 1 day refresher for riders as part of the test fee, so that riders who have been riding for a 6 months will have to come back for an assessment. I'm not suggesting a pass or fail, but I think new riders with 6 months under their belt are probably those who are most at risk. The initial fear of riding a powerful bike is gone by that time and they start to get in to bad habits. Perhaps link this with a right to carry pillions too. So that for the 1st 6 months they can only ride solo.
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malcolmw
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:41 
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Claire wrote:
What makes a basic safe biker ?

The ability to go out to the bike, look at it, look at the road and say "It's far too dangerous. I'm taking the car." :twisted:

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PeterE
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:54 
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Surely the point underlying this is that it's nonsense to set up costly off-road testing centres to test manoeuvres at 50 km/h, just to adhere to some stupid EU directive, rather than allowing them to be tested on the road at a marginally slower 30 mph. I don't think it's meant to be a root-and-branch review of the whole system.

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diy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:56 
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you can't do this on the road:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5f8Yyax ... re=related
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Big Tone
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 14:00 
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I know it's never going to happen, and there are reasons why it shouldn't, but compulsory basic training on motorbikes for car drivers so that they have an appreciation of them.

A typical event which happens to me is where a driver who is keen to get across a junction or pull out suddenly edges forward and I hit the breaks fearing he hasn’t seen me. He then looks at me like I’m overreacting but would he take that chance if he was in my position? Of course he wouldn't, but he neither cares nor understands it from a biker’s perspective. He just cares about his own selfish little world :x

I would say the vast majority of bike accidents are a SMIDSY. So although more and better training could be helpful, I fear it won’t address the main cause. I agree that the CBT and DAS is about right, from what little I know and have seen. There’s a guy I know, near to where I live, who does an excellent job. I’ve watch his training sessions on an enclosed large pitch at a sports stadium many times. http://www.goldiesmotorcycletraining.co.uk/

But my point is they can become skilful and better at recognising potential hazards and predicting what drivers may do, they could even go on an advanced riding test, but ultimately if a driver is going to pull out in front of you there’s not much you can do except give up and get a car like Malcolm said.

I know this isn’t very helpful but I think I’m right. I also go back to my old argument about compulsory eye tests for all drivers and riders. After an accident they’ll test if you’ve had a drink or whether you’re on drugs, yet your eyesight is never questioned. I know for a fact there are people out there who are literally flying blind.

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nigel_bytes
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 15:16 
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Big Tone wrote:
I know this isn’t very helpful but I think I’m right. I also go back to my old argument about compulsory eye tests for all drivers and riders. After an accident they’ll test if you’ve had a drink or whether you’re on drugs, yet your eyesight is never questioned. I know for a fact there are people out there who are literally flying blind.


I've always wondered why the DVLA dont work with opticians on this.
I know a chap who's had a licence for years , But said chap never actually took a test !
He had someone else take the test for him (20 years ago) .
Same chap has the poorest eyesight and even with glasses he'd have no chance of reading a number plate at 10 feet.

So yes lots of people took tests before Photo I.d and i wonder how many of them actually took the test themselves ?.

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Big Tone
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 16:06 
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There's a lot of very dodgy drivers out there for sure.

On a similar theme a guy from work I know 'of a certain age' said to me just the other day that he can see far ahead but not up close. It’s the same problem I have. My eyes aren't as bad as his but I am getting towards the limit of my arm length to read a paper or view my monitor.

He said he has no problem seeing the traffic but the speedo is a complete blur. When I asked him how he manages he told me “well I just know what feels right for the roads”. He’s never had an accident and effectively drives without a speedo.

Makes ya wonder why we need them eh? :roll: I guess it's so bad drivers can be distracted by their speed as they go around driving badly.

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PeterE
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 16:14 
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I'm sure we had this discussion with Paul a while back and he reckoned that the number of accidents where poor eyesight was a cause was very small and it was possible to drive safely even if your eyesight fell well below the legal requirements.

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Big Tone
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 16:52 
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PeterE wrote:
I'm sure we had this discussion with Paul a while back and he reckoned that the number of accidents where poor eyesight was a cause was very small and it was possible to drive safely even if your eyesight fell well below the legal requirements.
But if a driver with poor eyesight pulls in front of a biker, or car for that matter, it wouldn't be picked up because they don't test you for it. That was the point I was making.

You’re never going to blame it on eyesight if you don’t check whether that’s partly or wholly to blame anymore than you could ever blame an accident on drink if you don't check for that.

I'm digging my heels in on this one ;)

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PeterE
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 17:00 
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The opinions expressed by Paul which I was referring to are in this thread:

Eyesight and driving

In it, he said "Just because it sounds as if it should be important doesn't make it so."

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botach
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 23:34 
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Big Tone wrote:
But if a driver with poor eyesight pulls in front of a biker, or car for that matter, it wouldn't be picked up because they don't test you for it. That was the point I was making.



I'm digging my heels in on this one ;)[/quote]

But -Tone - and it's something levelled at older drivers - eyesight - which starts to go from the short side first - like you ,from what you've said - and yes ,I've got problems with speedos , but never with field of vision,( which should IMHO be =tested regularly -I believe it's also a symptom of Glycoma) or distance sighting . But ,how many drivers wearing glasses for driving ,have a blind/poor spot not corrected by specs on their full field . I used to laugh at the railway medicals that tested eyesight - to see if someone could see this line or that(of text) - when all I wanted the bloke to see was a dirty big train ,with a yellow front ,half a mile away . Similar problem to driving - not of seeing ,but of information transfer to brain .

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