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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 21:23 
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Sky News wrote:

'Unproven' Driving Safety Course Changes Gear

9:39am UK, Friday August 13, 2010
Gerard Tubb, North of England correspondent


The Driving Standards Agency has dropped its claim that a road safety programme for young drivers can reduce accidents after being told there is no evidence to back it up.

The Pass Plus driving course was launched in 1995 to counter high accident rates for youngsters and involves six hours of driving lessons at night, on motorways and in bad weather.

Without publicising it, the agency has dropped claims on its website that Pass Plus can reduce accident rates and give "peace of mind" to relatives.

The move comes after the agency was told there was no evidence to back up the claim.

The site now says the extra lessons will "help you become a more confident driver".

Figures obtained by Sky News show 360,000 newly-qualified drivers have spent up to £180 on the course since 2006, with public subsidies of more than £1.75m.

The websites of at least five local authorities still tell youngsters to take subsidised Pass Plus courses to reduce their chance of an accident.

A spokeswoman for the Driving Standards Agency (DSA) said it is not responsible for alerting local authorities that its information has been "updated".

"It is the website owner's responsibility to ensure the information they publish is accurate and up to date," she said.

Quote:
The worst thing you can do with a young driver is increase their confidence without increasing their competence. If there's no increase in competence you potentially run the risk of increasing the chance of accidents.

Professor Frank McKenna


The car insurance industry, which initially gave big discounts to youngsters who took the course, recognises its limitations.

For Sky's investigation, the Admiral Group analysed more than 4,000 claims involving young drivers.

Spokesman Justin Beddows said: "We could find no evidence that Pass Plus makes a young motorist any safer and less likely to have an accident in the future."

In 2006 the Government was informed by the Association of British Insurers that most young drivers admitted to taking just as many risks on the road after taking Pass Plus.

By 2008 they had been told by the Transport Research Laboratory that the course appeared to make "little or no difference" to accident rates and it was "not possible to determine conclusively whether Pass Plus has a positive effect".

Quote:
New drivers who have taken Pass Plus tell us that it improves their driving skills and confidence on the road and major insurance companies offer discounts to drivers who have taken Pass Plus precisely because they believe that the scheme improves drivers' ability.

Driving Standards Agency


New drivers who have taken Pass Plus tell us that it improves their driving skills and confidence on the road and major insurance companies offer discounts to drivers who have taken Pass Plus precisely because they believe that the scheme improves drivers' ability.

It is always good to base policy on solid evidence, but it's a bit rich to hear that from TRL.

I welcome the tuition of motorway driving wherever reasonably possible - well its better than nothing!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 22:27 
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Nice one - with my broker wanting a hefty fee for change of vehicle -I've started to look round . One thing mooted on their sites is that a Pass Plus would lower premiums . Wonder how they'll take this news .I notice the night driving tuition bit - strangely enough ,in my days my driving school taught after dark as well , and didn't limit training to a mini - I had lessons on a lotus cortina -to add some variety ,they said . And in the days of parents teaching kids - suspect a lot was done after work ( and a lot on the dark) .
The biggest problem IMHO opinion is that not enough emphasis is put on the fact that the test is only the beginning . But then again ,in my younger days -the chances of getting pulled over for doing something stupid was a lot greater .Once it came out that you'd not had your licence long - it changed to a lesson . ( Only heard of it happening) -by the time I'd got a few thousand on the clock ,I'd been passed out by dad and my uncle -with a lot of years of practical experience passed on .
And again - some newbies suffer from the arrogance of youth - had one young lad across the road -noticed he had a bulge on a tyre ,which I would suspect someone only passed a month wouldn't see ( and apart from danger ,thought he's like to save a few points of caught).Passed it on to his mum ( an experienced driver) ,who saw what I was on about -tyre got changed -and put on other side of car . So now ,I give his unguided missile a wide berth .

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 01:03 
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'Unproven' Driving Safety Course Changes Gear

So what has Pass Pluss been doing (apart from making a shed load of money) to improve driver standards and should we bee looking at something else ?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 07:16 
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Quote:
Professor Frank McKenna, a psychologist on the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety, believes more confidence could lead to more crashes.

"The worst thing you can do with a young driver is increase their confidence without increasing their competence," he said.

"If there's no increase in competence you potentially run the risk of increasing the chance of accidents."


Is this linear? Does a driver with zero confidence have zero accidents? I suppose they do if they just won't drive. But don't you need confidence to learn?

Actually this conflicts with the story a while back that in London (IIRC) cyclists who proceed with more confidence are safer than more nervous ones. Can't recall where I got this gem, but it featured on here.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 07:33 
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http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23087

Parallel thread alert!


Moderator message: threads merged, thank you (Steve)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 17:24 
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This raises questions as to whether it should just be accepted that newly qualified drivers have a higher risk, and that relatively little can be done to improve this. A number of things have been tried over the last decade or so, like making the test harder (or at least limiting the acceptable number of minor faults), limiting the number of points new drivers can earn before losing their licence, pass plus etc. I have no statistics but I get the distinct feeling that the number of accidents by new drivers has increased.

Part of this might be due to more young people having their own car and not having to borrow a car from their parents, who can then control their access to it (i.e. at night/bad weather or due to perceived misdemeanours).

As to night time driving tuition this may only occur if the training is of sufficient duration and starts at the right time of year. There are possible periods of the year when it would be difficult to accumulate significant night training.

Finally on the issue of confidence while it is clear that over confidence can lead to accidents, under confidence can also lead to accidents through hesitation. This is especially true if a minor error of judgement is made, it can sometimes be better to complete the manoeuvre rapidly than to freeze and do nothing (although clearly with experience the event would be avoided altogether)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 17:36 
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Is there not perhaps a selection bias in Pass Plus anyway, in the same way as with advanced training, in that in general it is chosen by those who are in any case more confident and/or competent?

I would have thought, if nothing else, that formal motorway tuition was highly desirable.

But, as has often been said, the key thing that improves driving competence is gaining more experience, which I would have thought Pass Plus could accelerate.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 18:05 
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My eldest son has just put in for PassPlus after passing his test earlier this year.

He is reasonably confident, and competent. I shall report back his opinions of what he learns - or not as the case might be!

He did get some tuition in the snow earlier this year courtesy of the bad weather - but his instructor was not able to give it for insurance reasons! Luckily we had access to some private land! I'd confidently pay to put him on a skid pan if the opportunity arose!

Having driven with him, I'd say he drives too far up to corners before braking to turn - but apparently that is the way he was instructed.
Apparently, "Gears are for going, Brakes are for slowing" - not like my day!
I anticipate bends and manouvres and slow appropriately in good time!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 20:50 
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Quote:


He did get some tuition in the snow earlier this year courtesy of the bad weather - but his instructor was not able to give it for insurance reasons! Luckily we had access to some private land! I'd confidently pay to put him on a skid pan if the opportunity arose!

Having driven with him, I'd say he drives too far up to corners before braking to turn - but apparently that is the way he was instructed.
Apparently, "Gears are for going, Brakes are for slowing" - not like my day!
I anticipate bends and manouvres and slow appropriately in good time!


Maybe, this has something to do with the fact, that we had more snow in the days when we learnt to drive. Everyone back then was taught to change down well before cornering and avoid braking like the plague when cornering on slippy surfaces...totally opposite, it seems, to todays tuition.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 21:00 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Apparently, "Gears are for going, Brakes are for slowing" - not like my day!
I anticipate bends and manouvres and slow appropriately in good time!


And from that Ern -they forgot that the right foot can be used to slow down as well .Most of the time ,if you are following at approximately the right spacing - car in front brakes -you only have to lift off ,to maintain safe distance .
But , what you're doing is the age olde art of driver training - something that added to the road safety program ( IMHO,in bygone days) - but only if child accepts that parent ( due to length of time driving) might be able to pass on some driving experience .

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Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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