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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 04:03 
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Daily - Mail Online - here
Daily, Mail Online- Ray Massey wrote:
Motorway speed limit will rise to 80mph in a bid to boost economy
By Ray Massey -Last updated at 11:59 PM on 23rd September 2011

Motorway speed limits will rise to 80mph to shorten journey times and help boost the economy.
Police and authorities currently turn a blind eye to most motorists who drive at this speed, and they are rarely prosecuted.
But a review of road safety is expected to conclude that the increase from the current 70mph limit should be made official.

Coming soon: The motorway speed limit is set to go up to 80mph
It is understood that there is now broad agreement within the Coalition and among civil servants, with the only question being the timing of the announcement.

A consultation on the increase could be announced as soon as this month’s Conservative Party conference
A condition is likely to be that an 80mph limit would be more strictly enforced, to prevent the usual speed rising to 90mph..
Another part of the deal, to keep the Lib Dems happy, is understood to be the introduction of more 20mph zones in residential areas.

A road safety expert close to the discussions told the Daily Mail: ‘We have heard whispers from civil servants that they have been looking at it and have been advised from Whitehall insiders that they are minded to raise it soon, either before or at the Tory conference.

‘But they are aware that safety groups will oppose it.’
Motorway: The change would bring Britain more in line with other European countries

Motorway: The change would bring Britain more in line with other European countries

The latest Department for Transport statistics show that nearly half (49 per cent) of cars exceeded the 70 mph speed limit on motorways last year.

One in seven (14 per cent) were recorded travelling at 80 mph or faster.

Transport Secretary Philip Hammond has already made clear his concern that anti-car campaigners have for too long used road safety as a convenient excuse both to prevent the speed limit on motorways being raised and to push for more 20mph zones in urban areas, even where they are inappropriate.

Mr Hammond believes that safety cannot be the sole determining factor when changing limits and that the economic impact must also be taken into account.
Ministers and experts argue that raising the speed limit could boost the economy.

They point out that a modest rise in the limit would mean speedier journeys for employees on jobs, reps on the road, and delivery vans.

Bigger lorries above 7.5 tons are restricted to 60mph on motorways and this is expected to remain.

Supporters of raising the limit point out that when 70mph was introduced in 1964, it was the maximum speed of most cars at the time.

Opponents say it will lead to an increase in casualties.
There were 132 deaths on motorways in 2009 at a time when the total number of road deaths was 2,222, the lowest since records began.
The Parliamentary Advisory Council on Transport Safety says raising the limit to 80mph would increase motorway casualties by between 5 and 10 per cent.

AA president Edmund King, who backs raising the limit, said: ‘Our view is that 80mph in a modern car, in good weather, at a proper distance from the car in front is a safe speed, whereas 50mph in bad weather, tailgating the car in front, is a very dangerous speed.
‘Some might argue that 80mph is already the default speed, as motorists rarely get prosecuted for driving at 80mph on motorways.
‘However if we want people to adhere to the lower speed limits, such as 30mph, it is better to have speed limits that are realistic and enforced.’

Britain has some of the safest roads and motorways in Europe, as well as a lower speed limit than most of the continent.
The maximum in France and Italy is 81mph, while in Ireland Spain and Portugal it is 75mph. German autobahns are unrestricted.
Excellent :) About time.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 08:53 
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If it's more strictly enforced, then will it make any difference? Booking people for doing 83 or 84 will make a mockery of the whole thing.

While I obviously support raising the motorway limit, in my view all the ridiculous and unnecessary drops from :nsl: to :50: and from :40: to :30: are far more of a problem.

In any case, a lot of motorway traffic is going slower nowadays to save fuel.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:16 
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They're still going to have to apply the general ACPO 10% + 4mph or the 10% +9mph anyway... If everyone is generally under 80mph then that is a sensible limit to set. It's a pity they don't see that on other roads where 50% ignore the limit and blimming well raise them! Will be highly amusing to see that accident rates will likely stay the same or hopefully reduce. A reduction in accidents after raising the limit will really knacker the 'slower is safer' lot :twisted:

20 mph in residential areas is going to lengthen journey times for an awful lot of people. Far more than 80mph will reduce them. Don't think people realise how much more pollution there will be if everyone crawls through at 20mph instead of 30mph either...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:10 
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PeterE wrote:
If it's more strictly enforced, then will it make any difference? Booking people for doing 83 or 84 will make a mockery of the whole thing.

While I obviously support raising the motorway limit, in my view all the ridiculous and unnecessary drops from :nsl: to :50: and from :40: to :30: are far more of a problem.

In any case, a lot of motorway traffic is going slower nowadays to save fuel.


I agree with all this. Besides, the lib dems will veto this 80 limit on eco grounds.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 13:59 
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Groan @ stricter enforcement. Groan @ more 20 zones. I never speed and completely disagree with ever bereaking limits, only dangerous lunatics do that, but my friend regularly exceeds 80 mph if conditions are favourable on motorways. As has been pointed out, nicking people for 84 would be a joke. Although 10% +2 suggests you could get away with 90mph, given a speedo error of a persumed over reading of 10% means you could be safe from prosecution at an indicated 99.1mph :D

And more 20 zones? Please. I have yet to see a 20 zone that is warranted. I was riding in Archway t'other day and there was a perticularly nasty, pointless, meandering 20 zone that is littered with speed bumps - why? I kept forgetting/disregarding it as useless. Hope there was no cameras there.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 19:23 
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It will sort the sheep out from the goats on IAM and RoADA tests :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 19:51 
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I think this is a good step in the right direction. This is official recognition that speed isn't really the killer that it is portrayed as being.

Also, this will help alleviate the serious and significant issue of fatigue, something I have repeatedly highlighted (“Road Safety Research Report No. 52, Sleep-Related Crashes on Sections of Different Road Types in the UK (1995–2001)” ).

Overall, there might be a slight increase in KSI on these roads, but we cannot forget that there will be a level of displacement of traffic from other (less safe) roads. As I have said in earlier posts: increasing a relatively small number by a given amount and reducing a larger number by the same ratio leads to an overall reduction (the simple mathematical concept of 'weighting'). So yes the injury rate may indeed increase on the fast road (or not thanks to reduced fatigue and hence increased awareness), but the overall fall makes it worthwhile.

The only downside is the current lack of lane discipline will become more pronounced as folks who continue with their normal speed, remaining in the outside lane, will be causing even more of an obstruction.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 06:35 
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teabelly wrote:
Don't think people realise how much more pollution there will be if everyone crawls through at 20mph instead of 30mph either...


Less pollution?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 07:28 
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Most cars will do 30MPH in fourth gear with minimum revs. To do 20MPH you will have to drop to third gear and increase the revs....increased fuel cosumption and pollution....simples!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 09:01 
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Very sensible and about time too. I’ve always said it’s fast enough to feel like you’re getting somewhere but slow enough not to guzzle the entire tank in next to no time. I will be able to go south like I’ve always done only without breaking the law in futre. Like others here have said, my concern is the ridiculous lowering of other limits to absurd levels. Someone should tell them about the 85th %ile and make pedestrians more responsible for their behaviour.

My main concern about raising the limit to 80mph is the morons who tailgate. If or when it’s brought in they should do something like in Germany where it’s a specific offence – and enforce it! I know what might be said here so I’ll say it first, it’s already an offence under the current DWDC or DD but it’s never, ever, enforced! Not once have I ever heard or read of someone being done for it. So while the thought of being able to do 80mph legally is nice the prospect of having some idiot stuck up my arse at that speed does not fill me with glee! :x

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 09:49 
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weepej wrote:
teabelly wrote:
Don't think people realise how much more pollution there will be if everyone crawls through at 20mph instead of 30mph either...


Less pollution?

I put it to you that you cannot substantiate your suggested answer.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:47 
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Certainly enforcing tailgating and lane discipline would do far more to reduce motorway journey times and improve safety, and would be a far better use of resources, than rigidly enforcing a long-overdue limit increase.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:30 
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If the limit were raised to 80mph then I doubt that anyone would actually drive any differently than they do now. People generally drive at what they feel to be an appropriate speed for the conditions. This is about 85mph on the motorway and reflects the improvements in vehicles over the long currency of the 70mph limit.

I don't know but when the 70mph limit was introduced, the top speed of most family cars was probably about 75mph. :)

What about making the default NSL 80mph? It would save on signage.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 14:46 
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weepej wrote:
teabelly wrote:
Don't think people realise how much more pollution there will be if everyone crawls through at 20mph instead of 30mph either...


Less pollution?


When I was doing traffic engineering at uni I recall a graph of four different pollutants against speed.

A couple increased roughly proportionally to vehicle speed, a couple decreased asymptotically with speed.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 18:44 
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Having just heard the news on TV that road safety campaigns, whoever they may be, are horrified at the increased limit and say “it will lead to more deaths”, I'd like to see how much egg on their Big Righteous Anecdotal Kedge Ethic stance on speed kills can be rebutted after they find that KSI doesn't go up.

I’m sure they and others will do absolutely anything and use every statistic in the book to prove it has, or any excuse to say why it didn’t. This could be interesting :scratchchin: Policy on Speed Kills vs raising of limits. Sounds like a contradiction to me, unless... Oh no! It can't be can it? :shock: :o I need a drink! Okay, I need another drink :D

Another thought I’ve just had; let’s say you get a NIP in the post at time after the new change and your 82mph in a :70: becomes 82mph in an :80: What then?

Say Claire.. I've just realised you may need an 80mph smilie/icon thingy soon :wink: :D

I wonder if or when that's done my ":80:" will change above? :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 19:43 
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How much am I bet that the AA and the RAC will come out against this?

Can't remember the last time they said anything pro-motorist.

And all road safety campaigners are anti this? Claire?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 21:16 
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I believe the AA was actually founded to warn motorists of speedtraps. Sad they don't have our best interests at heart these days. IAM is more likely to be positive and encouraging than the AA. They are just breakdown people anyway. The RAC seem a bit better in my experience.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 22:19 
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The government have announced an official consultation today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15116064

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 23:26 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
How much am I bet that the AA and the RAC will come out against this?


From the Beeb...

Quote:
Professor Stephen Glaister, director of the RAC Foundation, said: "There are good reasons for making 80 the new 70, and good reasons not to.


:roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 23:38 
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Genius. Thank you to the RAC for clearing that one up. :lol:


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