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 Post subject: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 14:03 
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This extremely concerning spy on thy neighbour official website has been launched ! here
DPU - Kieth Peat wrote:
Police Witness.com penalise drivers for profit
More road safety so long as there's a few bob in it. With great fanfare the Daily Mail
ran a great spread about a new pious initiative to empower people to spy on others; all in the name of road safety and saving lives you understand.

The idea, by an outfit called http://www.PoliceWitness.com, calls on every Tom Dick & Harry to spy on other people, including covertly, in case they may commit a driving offence on camera, and then report them, to the firm, with video evidence for whatever heinous crime may have been perceived.

As we have exposed on another Ex Police officer jumping on the profitable Road Safety Bandwagon, the MD of this is no less than retired Assistant Chief Constable Alan Featherstone.
All very impressive. No doubt designed to bring respectability and credibility, as only ex ACPO Ltd members know how to do so well, for any profitable adventure. Err but what is his road safety and driving expertise to be dabbling in this life & death matter and also one which includes the distressful prosecution of perfectly safe drivers? According to the company profile, his history seems to have been police management. Is he a police advanced driver? Was he in traffic? Accident investigation? What exactly was his police specialty other than management?

Their Chief Exec. Matthew Stockdale
is pure management through and through whilst their Gen.Manager Kerry Lewis
is a career business woman whose major aim was to run her own company. In neither of these is there any association with road driving expertise or road safety.

In reply to my concern that these people would mostly be filming ordinary people not doing anything wrong and that there clearly would be an intrusion of privacy which they could legitimately stop happening, Matt let out, on BBC Radio WM, that 'most of the time they wouldn't know they were being filmed.' That is covert filming then?

From the hostile anti driver post we get, the last thing we need is hundreds of illogical, anti driver, Lycra anoraks running around with cameras stuck to their hats. Is PoliceWitness.com going to vet these people before it accepts their input?

But why do we need an inexpert company to handle this when we should take evidence like this direct to the police? Err perhaps it may be to do with the fact that one of the things this company supplies is a 'proper' camera to do it with at £149 a pop!

So now we are going to challenge all police chiefs to denounce this profitable spying; a microcosm of all that is wrong about the Road Safety Industry.
Add to the above this list here in their Press Releases for policewitness.com and it defies belief!
Is this really what we all want, and choose to 'sign up to' ?
I can only urge that we ALL contact our MP's and complain as loudly as we possibly can BEFORE it is too late ...
The whois network shows here that the following organisation 'Domain Privacy Protector Ltd' is responsible for the registration at least - but what else ? :
Whois wrote:
WHOIS information for policewitness.com :

[Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
[Redirected to whois.advantage-interactive.com]
[Querying whois.advantage-interactive.com]
[whois.advantage-interactive.com]
domain: POLICEWITNESS.COM
owner-c: AI-826604
admin-c: AI-826604
tech-c: AI-300624
bill-c: AI-300624
nserver: ns1.lcn.com 195.82.107.156
nserver: ns0.lcn.com 94.126.40.3
created: 2011-01-12 06:35:05
expires: 2013-01-12 06:35:05
changed: 2011-10-14 09:30:20

contact-handle: AI-826604
contact: Private User
organisation: Domain Privacy Protector Ltd
address: Office 404, 4th Floor
address: Albany House, 324/326 Regent Street
address: London
address: w1b 3hh
address: GB
phone: +44.1438342490
email: 35547e6141896087a6de6efcd08faaaa@domain ... tector.com

contact-handle: AI-300624
contact: Hostmaster
address: Units H, J, K
address: Gateway 1000
address: Whittle Way
address: Stevenage
address: England
address: SG1 2FP
address: GB
phone: +44.1438342490
fax: +44.1438300137
email: support@lcn.com
If the motoring public as a whole, all report on each other, then we have removed our democratic society, and turned it into nothing more than a, State of Nation Police - or Spy City. Trust in all will be eradicated, while others make it rich. Road Safety will seriously suffer as we become completely paranoid about every possible technical infringement, and our entire road attention will be to every conceivable technical infringement to preserve our licences, than to damage to property and people.

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 14:17 
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I should write to them and encourage them to concentrate their activities, not on motoring, but on general antisocial behaviour by yobs. This is far more worrying to me. Do you really think the police will be too happy receiving loads of dubious video?

Why not take a camera to the entrance to a scrapyard and film anyone you think may be trying to sell stolen copper cables. This is really antisocial but would involve the risk of being accosted by angry gypsies. Still we are here to detect crime aren't we. A small price to pay.

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 15:55 
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Seems to be encouraging the "Stasi" mentality as seen in the former East Germany, where everyone spied on everyone else :x

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 16:07 
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PeterE wrote:
Seems to be encouraging the "Stasi" mentality as seen in the former East Germany, where everyone spied on everyone else :x


Something like our council "Enviro " team ,with signs on the van urging people to report cars throwing rubbish out .Great -got someone you don't like -report them ,and with the council let them prove thst they're innocent .

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 17:05 
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In fact, you have hit on exactly the core issue here. The site is called "policewitness" and not "police-evidence". These videos are poor evidence of anything and thus the police are unlikely to take further action.

This whole scheme is like Community Speedwatch. It's about making angry people who feel put upon in some way reassured that they are doing "something" without actually costing the police very much.

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 02:57 
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Hypothetically if everyone obtained a (cheaper) cam-kit and then filmed every council official and MP, and showed them their errors, if might help them to perceive just how pointless this all is, perhaps then they would re-consider this 'evidence'.

An interesting point though is that I could promote it as a learning aid, to help people with their own driving capabilities, so that one might look to improve their abilities, skills and knowledge. Perhaps the Police would be better telling motorists / cyclists how to deal with such people on the roads, than accept the 'evidence' and use it for ever more stick beating.
We need confident and contentious motorists not paranoid one's.
I agree that it maybe, yet another fad, and may fade out, but at what cost ? It makes me angry when I think of all those who's lives might be ruined (last straw etc) from a pointless technical infringement exercise, which is likely to only go towards merely observing millions of motorists, and their technical offence actions, than to achieve any real road safety benefit !

If the recordings caught much action prior to accidents, then yes it would be most helpful, but may not tell the whole story.

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 14:25 
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I despair of this country, I really do.

Who are these people? (Rhetorical question.)

http://www.policewitness.com/media/brea ... rent-news/

There is a story about parents being able to limit the top speed of their car if the teenager is driving it, technology pioneered by Ford. Police Witness says:

"Only 2 out of 10 for achieving. Sadly, using a blunt instrument will rarely achieve a successful operation. People do not have to wait to buy a new car in order to have a solution to the problems which Ford seeks to address. That solution can be far more refined and massively more effective for a fraction of the cost.

Installing a camera and ‘black box’ technology in your car will not only allow you to identify precisely how your teenage child is driving, it can also allow you to monitor it on a live basis if you wish, and to see precisely where, when and by whom it is being driven.

It's what the Americans call a ‘no-brainer’." "

So they advocate spying on your children? Monitoring your car on a live basis?

They then go on to justify invasive technology used to catch drivers parking illegaly, many of them innocent the article says, as being akin to drink driving 'It isn't that many years since drinking and driving was the norm. Yes, really. And real men didn't wear seat belts. How stupid does that sound today?'

These people are lunatics. I am speechless. In a sane world they would have been taken out and shot a long time ago. Someone mentioned the Stasi. Chilling stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 03:13 
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I am interested if this is a private company that will sell the media material back to the Police and then how much they will pay for it ! Public doing the Police's work for free... so that others can profit, and rarely for any road safety benefit.
Still we can make many FOI requests and show it up for what it is.
Might even persuade that media sessions have to be submitted as a whole so that if the person submitting the material has made errors then that will be picked up on too, and hopefully discourage many submissions, or at least make less throw stones at others ...
Does this point pout that all the CCTV cameras are pretty useless? ... or an extra million eyes ?

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 20:46 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Hypothetically if everyone obtained a (cheaper) cam-kit and then filmed every council official and MP, and showed them their errors, if might help them to perceive just how pointless this all is, perhaps then they would re-consider this 'evidence'.




From my experience it would get lost in transit .We had a council official beating a drum on off road parking without a dropped kerb . What got missed was that tenants ha long been complaining about thw width of the roa( very narrow) and possible problems to Emergency services by thoughtless parkers and sought to alleviate the situation .The arguement was about crossing the pavement an possible damage caused . I remined the council official that those in glass houses should refrain from throwing stones ,an that I might chose to complain about counci 2.5t vehicles parked wholly/partly on pavements ,and council 7.5 wagons backing into gardens to pick up rubbish . The e mail was acknowledged ,an a follow up got the reply that it had not been recieved .i contacted a councillor who told me that several other tenants had one likewise and recieved the same reply .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 13:06 
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Claire - the CCTV cameras are pretty useful at raising revenue for petty traffic offences for local councils - let us not forget that! Certain London boroughs use it as a licence to print money!


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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:42 
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What offences are they using CCTV for against motorists ? Yellow Box 'sitting' ?

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:39 
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Yes, yellow box infringements, bus lane enforcement and no waiting restrictions (as opposed to no parking).

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 01:51 
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Traffic islands, no right turn, parking (some parts of London are a nigtmare - you can't even pull up without a ticket being issued and on it's way to you - and no, I do not mean red route)


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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 03:03 
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malcolmw wrote:
Yes, yellow box infringements, bus lane enforcement and no waiting restrictions (as opposed to no parking).

Aren't some of these "decriminalised", though, meaning that no points result?

That doesn't make it any better, of course, and in a sense just makes it more of a money-making exercise.

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:57 
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All of those offences mentioned are non-endorsable. You just get a letter in the post and have to cough up £60+. It has all gone too far imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 13:09 
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DoktorMandrake wrote:
I despair of this country, I really do.

Who are these people? (Rhetorical question.)

http://www.policewitness.com/media/brea ... rent-news/

There is a story about parents being able to limit the top speed of their car if the teenager is driving it, technology pioneered by Ford. Police Witness says:

"Only 2 out of 10 for achieving. Sadly, using a blunt instrument will rarely achieve a successful operation. People do not have to wait to buy a new car in order to have a solution to the problems which Ford seeks to address. That solution can be far more refined and massively more effective for a fraction of the cost.

Installing a camera and ‘black box’ technology in your car will not only allow you to identify precisely how your teenage child is driving, it can also allow you to monitor it on a live basis if you wish, and to see precisely where, when and by whom it is being driven.

It's what the Americans call a ‘no-brainer’." "


Actually, I think it's likely to achieve a whole lot more than installing the "black box", personally! The one device physically prevents a particular speed being exceeded, the latter, merely lets you know that's what speed your beloved offspring was doing just before the fatal accident. Mind you, if I had the choice (and it's technologically perfecty possible), I'd MUCH rather limit engine torque. I'd have no problem with my kids driving at speeds that could prove fatal in some circumstances but not others, whereas with kids (if my recollections of my mis-spent youth are anything to go by) loss of control due to asking for more torque than the tyres could put on the tarmac was a much bigger problem!

DoktorMandrake wrote:
So they advocate spying on your children? Monitoring your car on a live basis?


Aye, that's nub of it, I think. If trust has broken down to that sort of level, you've probably already lost the battle to bring them up right.


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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 16:44 
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I am against any of these type of devices. In an ideal world, kids would look after their mum and dad's cars out of respect for their parents and fear of the consequences if as much as a scratch was attributable to misuse. I remember my brother knocked a reflector out of the back of my dad's car due to an invisible post jumping out and attacking the car while he was trying to park. The damage to the car was minimal. The trust took much longer to repair. My brother was suitably contrite and after a while was allowed to borrow the car again. I, on the other hand, am to this day not allowed to drive the car. Make of that what you will :lol:

Most people I know crashed a car in their youth. Those who did not survive would not have been helped by a black box or a limiter as they were drunk or under the influence of other substances. They would still have probably ended up getting into trouble. Those who were sober learnt the valuable lesson that crashing cars is an expensive business best avoided and that girls don't pay much attention to you when you are back waiting for the bus. Sadly, today, we seem to want to wrap our kids in cotton wool, monitor them and curtail their freedom, all in the name of safety. Sounds to me like some of us are as bad as the government.


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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 17:41 
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Quote:
My brother was suitably contrite and after a while was allowed to borrow the car again. I, on the other hand, am to this day not allowed to drive the car. Make of that what you will.

Prodigal son?

There is more joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth...

I've never understood the sense in these stories. Be good and get a worse deal than the bad boys.

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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 18:56 
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It's intended to encourage you to "play the long game"!


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 Post subject: Re: Policewitness.com
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 19:01 
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DoktorMandrake wrote:
I am against any of these type of devices. In an ideal world, kids would look after their mum and dad's cars out of respect for their parents and fear of the consequences if as much as a scratch was attributable to misuse. I remember my brother knocked a reflector out of the back of my dad's car due to an invisible post jumping out and attacking the car while he was trying to park. The damage to the car was minimal. The trust took much longer to repair. My brother was suitably contrite and after a while was allowed to borrow the car again. I, on the other hand, am to this day not allowed to drive the car. Make of that what you will :lol:

Most people I know crashed a car in their youth. Those who did not survive would not have been helped by a black box or a limiter as they were drunk or under the influence of other substances. They would still have probably ended up getting into trouble. Those who were sober learnt the valuable lesson that crashing cars is an expensive business best avoided and that girls don't pay much attention to you when you are back waiting for the bus. Sadly, today, we seem to want to wrap our kids in cotton wool, monitor them and curtail their freedom, all in the name of safety. Sounds to me like some of us are as bad as the government.


I reckon something that limited torque could save a few lives (especially combined with ESC)! We all do silly things when we're young, it's just that a very few don't live to do silly thing when they're older. A fair number of my "moments" were as a result of breaking traction when booting it. I had a relatively few "moments" that resulted from arriving at a nasty bend that either tightened or had adverse camber or someother sneaky nastiness, at too high a speed, but I can't recall any where the absolute speed, in itself, was the problem. (Hence my lack of interest in speed limiters (and to a similar extent, speed limit enforcement)!


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