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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 15:21 
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Daily Telegraph here
Daily Telegraph - David Millward wrote:
By David Millward, Transport Editor
6:06PM BST 04 Aug 2011
Road casualties continue to fall as speed cameras stripped out

The number of people killed and seriously injured on the roads continued to fall despite speed cameras being stripped out across the country, according to the latest figures released by the Government.

According to the latest statistics released by the Department for Transport fatalities dropped by 10 per cent, falling to 1,870 for the 12 months ending in March.

Over the same period the number of people killed and seriously injured fell to 24,770, a decline of five per cent.
This coincided with an even more dramatic 35 per cent reduction in people killed in drink-drive accidents, with 250 deaths last year compared with 380 in 2009.
The apparent improvement in road safety will hearten ministers, who had been under attack for withdrawing funding from speed cameras and also slashing the amount spent on anti-drink drive campaigns.
Spending cuts over the past year have seen cameras switched off across the country as safety police and councils have seen their budgets squeezed.
Partnerships in Wiltshire, Derbyshire, Buckinghamshire, Somerset and Norfolk are among those who have turned off all or some of their cameras.

The continuing decline was hailed by Claire Armstrong of Safe Speed, a pressure group which has long argued that cameras played little role in the long-term reduction of road casualties.
“Speed Cameras are a flawed Road Safety policy and this proves it, since so many are unused and the vast majority are switched off,” she said.
“The motorist is our best road safety asset, and improving good judgement and managing risk, is key to prevent damage to property and people.”

But Ellen Booth of the pro-camera group, Brake, disagreed. "Reductions in road casualties are achieved through many types of road safety initiatives so it would be misleading to try to assess the impact of widespread speed camera withdrawals from casualty figures alone,” she said.
“All the existing academic evidence on the effectiveness of speed camera programmes suggests that it is very likely that more people will have been killed or injured on our roads, and more families torn apart, as a direct result of speed cameras being turned off.”

But Andrew Howard, the AA’s head of road safety, sounded a note of caution.
“You have to take into account that not all the cameras were withdrawn at the same time. We will need another year to get a more accurate picture of what has been going on.”
The sharp reduction in drink drive deaths was welcomed by Norman Baker, the local transport minister.
“The provisional figures for 2010 suggest the number of drink-drive deaths is now 83% lower than 30 years ago. This is very welcome.
"However, we are determined to continue to take firm action against the small minority of drivers who still ignore the limit.”

I also said that "We are delighted to see that casualties are continuing to fall.
During times of recession we know that the economy reduces the density and volume of traffic and over the last 3 years we have seen a substantial drop of approximately 5%.
Couple this with people traveling less far, less often and therefor are exposed to less danger, plus that they travel more defensively, all aid to help reduce these figures. A word of caution though, as we climb out of recession we expect the casualty figures to increase."
A great shame that they never go this bit in !

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 22:59 
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But Ellen Booth of the pro-camera group, Brake, disagreed. "Reductions in road casualties are achieved through many types of road safety initiatives so it would be misleading to try to assess the impact of widespread speed camera withdrawals from casualty figures alone,” she said.

This is interesting as this organisation reaches for cameras to reduce traffic speed as a knee-jerk reaction to almost anything. They aren't called BRAKE for nothing. Can anyone think of an instance where they have suggested, for example, re-engineering the road layout?

To slightly change her response:

"Reductions in road casualties are achieved through many types of road safety initiatives so it would be misleading to try to assess the impact of widespread speed camera INSTALLATIONS from casualty figures alone."

Why would this statement not be just as valid as her original?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 17:42 
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Is that true? The emotional appeal aside, that all existing academic research shows that if speed cameras were turned off tomorrow more people would die?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 03:18 
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I think you will possibly find that she is referring to the 'public pressure' in so much as how 'people' feel so much safer when all cars are traveling very slowly indeed.
Which as we all know here, does not make for safer motorists and does not prepare them any better for developing hazards, but is in fact more likely to bore them and have them seriously distracted, just when they need to be paying greater attention.

Brake are also now following the Safe Speed Twitter ! Good to have them on board, but I wish they came on the forum more often. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 08:27 
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In my experience, the knowledge that there is a speed camera in front does not necessarily mean more responsible driving (same with knowing where the police usually stays). That usually means speeding and making dangerous manuevres everywhere else, because you know which spots are being watched. Responsible driving is a combination of different strategies and it's funny they thought once they switched the cameras off, suddenly more people would die. That would probably lead to more monotonous driving or in other words keeping the same speed pretty much everywhere, which may not be so bad, as in my experience (and I'm not trying to speak as an expert, just out of what I've witnessed), accidents have happened because of the dangerous manuevres and speeding/slowing down all the time, rather than when one speed is being maintained throughout.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:03 
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You can't really say that one speed being maintained throughout is safer than speeding up/slowing down. It depends how either is done, the levels of concentration/alertness of the driver, the reasons behind their choice of driving style, how the person is driving - whether they are driving according to conditions etc. or just blindly following signs.

SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Brake are also now following the Safe Speed Twitter ! Good to have them on board, but I wish they came on the forum more often. :)


I wish they would too. As it presumably means they're not on our roads! I often wake up in a cold sweat after dreaming I was stuck behind someone from Brake :drive1: :D


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 17:42 
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I often wake up in a cold sweat after dreaming I was stuck behind someone from Brake :drive1: :D


I wouldn't worry about that because I honestly can't imagine any of them actually driving, bearing in mind the drivel they spout.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 16:17 
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Can anyone supply a photograph of the unmarked (green) camera vehicle which operated in Derbyshire some while back.? They now operate a silver/grey one on the A623 at Wardlow Mires mainly on Sundays when less HGVs are about and one can travel at an acceptable speed and not the new lower limit of 50MPH.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 17:35 
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graball wrote:
Quote:
I often wake up in a cold sweat after dreaming I was stuck behind someone from Brake :drive1: :D


I wouldn't worry about that because I honestly can't imagine any of them actually driving, bearing in mind the drivel they spout.


I'd suggest that their vehicle of choice is one with three wheels ,possibly sitting under a bridge. Can't find the simile - Anyone :?: ,or possible :sub: :sub:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 18:39 
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ollie wrote:
Can anyone supply a photograph of the unmarked (green) camera vehicle which operated in Derbyshire some while back.? They now operate a silver/grey one on the A623 at Wardlow Mires mainly on Sundays when less HGVs are about and one can travel at an acceptable speed and not the new lower limit of 50MPH.

All I can find are these one's on the speedcam site : http://www.speedcam.co.uk/van.htm

Edited to add : just found this one : http://www.abd.org.uk/local/derbyshire.htm

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 22:25 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
ollie wrote:
Can anyone supply a photograph of the unmarked (green) camera vehicle which operated in Derbyshire some while back.? They now operate a silver/grey one on the A623 at Wardlow Mires mainly on Sundays when less HGVs are about and one can travel at an acceptable speed and not the new lower limit of 50MPH.

All I can find are these one's on the speedcam site : http://www.speedcam.co.uk/van.htm

Edited to add : just found this one : http://www.abd.org.uk/local/derbyshire.htm


Thanks for the pics,just what I required as a Chf Supt claimed all vans are in livery. He thought I'd just fell off the Christmas Tree.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 00:51 
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Ellen Booth of Brake wrote:
...Reductions in road casualties are achieved through many types of road safety initiatives so it would be misleading to try to assess the impact of widespread speed camera withdrawals from casualty figures alone


Yeah, 'cause, of course, it's not like when the cameras were being put up, we ever heard any claims that they alone were responsible for a reduction in KSIs, did we?! :lol: Maybe all those reductions in KSIs "at the camera sites" WERE as a result of many types of road safety initiatives after all?!


Ellen Booth of Brake wrote:
All the existing academic evidence on the effectiveness of speed camera programmes suggests that it is very likely that more people will have been killed or injured on our roads, and more families torn apart, as a direct result of speed cameras being turned off.


Well as the headline appears to strongly suggest the contrary, maybe "all the academic evidence" needs reviewing then? Shame, and it was all peer-reviewd at the time as well, wasn't it? Oh where's Monbiot when you need him...?


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