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Gizmo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 23:33 
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[url=http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=132407&command=displayContent&sourceNode=132390&contentPK=13663356&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch]MP WANTS SPEED CAMERA LAW CHANGE
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Motorists are often unfairly punished by cameras where the speed limit is unclear, a Leicestershire MP will claim as he tries to change the law.

Loughborough Labour MP Andy Reed has sponsored a 10-Minute Rule Bill, by Nick Palmer, the Broxtowe MP, in the House of Commons.

Dr Palmer, a Labour MP who will present his Bill to MPs today, wants all signs indicating that a speed camera is ahead to also state by law what the speed limit is on the road in question.

At the moment, the signs contain just a picture of a camera - but do not state the speed limit.

Motorists believe the limit is actually 40 on a 30 road, and so unwittingly get flashed by cameras, he claims.

"Some roads have 30mph limits all along them, but they look similar to a number of others with 40mph limits on them," the MP said.

"That means that when motorists join the 30mph road, they're often not aware of what the speed limit actually is."

A Department for Transport spokesman said it was not mandatory to put speed limits with camera-signs - but that there was a facility to do so now, if a sign conforms to a special type of specification.

"You can have a picture of a camera with a speed limit on it, as long as they are yellow and rectangular," he said.

The spokesman added that the instruction was likely not to be made mandatory, because of a fear of "clutter," but that speed limits were already sign-posted clearly on all roads.


Good effort at common sense.

So "clutter" is more important than safety...now I understand.

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teabelly
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 08:58 
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The MP's idea is a good one.

They don't want it because fewer people would be caught by cameras. Many are placed where there isn't a repeater in sight so if you are in an unfamiliar area trying to find your way then you can often miss the odd sign which is the difference between getting flashed and not. It also distracts from looking where you are going as I'm sometimes thinking 'what's the f*&%^% limit on this road?' rather than 'what is going on ahead?'.
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PeterE
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 09:14 
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Yes, if we are to have some fixed cameras (and I appreciate Paul's ultimate objective is to get them entirely removed) then each one should be preceded by a specific advance warning sign stating the applicable limit.

SPEED CAMERA 200 YARDS :30:

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Johnnytheboy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:09 
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Equally, I've always thought putting the speed limit roundel on the back of a gatso would be helpful, and also reduce panic braking.
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Zamzara
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 16:02 
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A disturbing case here:

http://www.pepipoo.com/NewForums2/viewtopic.php?t=8883

No repeaters, just one (obscured) 30 sign on entry to the limit.

The partnership's response: the street lights tell you it's a 30. Which of course they don't, as the poster pointed out, as there are also street lights in the 40 section. :(
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madroaduser
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 22:27 
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I would've thought that just having a sign like this :880: would've sufficed.

Would be fine before a fixed camera. But then you've still got to think about the mobile scammers :x
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PeterE
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 22:36 
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madroaduser wrote:
I would've thought that just having a sign like this :880: would've sufficed.

Would be fine before a fixed camera. But then you've still got to think about the mobile scammers :x

These also crop up ahead of mobile sites, even though they're not supposed to.

However, for signing to be effective, it must apply to all camera sites and not show any false positives. Loads of cameras don't have those 30 repeaters.

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botach
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 00:08 
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My 2p worth - the pratnerships say that speed ( as in the numerical sense) is the key.(Before someone throws a brick at me , i'm humouring them , remember - i certainly don't believe them)
Now lets just for a moment humour them.
Lets see them make certain that drivers can see what the speed limit is - post signs, cut back vegetation etc - to ensure that drivers see what the limit is ( because they say exceeding it is dangerous), fit SIDs before cameras.
Let them do this out of their budget, or take a bigger bite out of the fines, and then see how the Exchequer likes reduced revenue.

Said as a suggestion.

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antera309
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 03:04 
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All roads where speed enforcement takes place (either fixed cameras or mobile patrols/vans) should have the speed limit clearly marked well in advance of the enforcement location.

The signage should also indicate the reason for the low limit, e.g. "Pedestrians crossing", "Dangerous bend", "Concealed side road", "School ahead" etc.

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Safety Engineer
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 22:14 
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"The spokesman added that the instruction was likely not to be made mandatory, because of a fear of "clutter," but that speed limits were already sign-posted clearly on all roads. "

Funny, just down the road from my parents there have section of road that runs with lamp post thus

1. 40mph Repeater

2. NO Sign

3. Speed Camera Sign

4. No Sign

5. 40mph Repeater

And the cycle continues, personally would rather have the 40mph repeater and speedcam sign on the same lampost - I can see the sign and the limit that I'm supposed to follow.

At present most drivers see the speedcam sign (which is the bigger of the two) and are treating the road as a 30mph limit, have seen more tailgating, more inappropriate overtaking and more near misses since this all started. IMO this road has become MORE dangerous since the introduction of speedcams (and signs).

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mpaton2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 18:21 
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Try driving off the M56 towards North Wales - big roundabout - 4 different A roads, none of them with any speed limit signs whatsoever, no repeaters, nothing.
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PeterE
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 19:06 
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mpaton2004 wrote:
Try driving off the M56 towards North Wales - big roundabout - 4 different A roads, none of them with any speed limit signs whatsoever, no repeaters, nothing.

Which specific roundabout do you mean? Certainly not the one at the end of the M56 heading towards North Wales where it joins the A5117, which only has two non-motorway exits, both of which are the same A-road.

And if all 4 A-roads are NSL, then there's no need for any speed limit signs or repeaters if they are unlit.

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