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SPEED CAM CAN ZAP YOU FROM A MILE OFF

May 26 2004


Video will also identify the driver

By Helen Cook


A NEW speed gun that can trap drivers more than a mile away goes into use next month.

It combines video and laser technology and will identify the driver as well as the car's number plate.

The ProLaser III will have the potential to raise millions in fines and could lead to thousands of motorists losing their licences.

It is designed to stop drivers slowing down at conventional speed cameras, then speeding up afterwards.

Manufacturers insist the machine, which will be introduced in Dorset, has been devised to save lives.

Johnny Stephens, project manager for the Dorset Safety Camera Partnership, said: "Our overriding priority is to reduce the number of casualties on the roads.

"We know some members of the public race towards cameras and then break hard as they pass and speed up again."

The operator holds the device in his hand and points it at a vehicle.

Its laser is projected on to the car and it bounces back the recorded speed.

The video in the camera logs the number plate and the driver and a penalty notice is sent automatically through the post.

In around 15 per cent of areas, the cameras will not require warning signs telling motorists where they are.

Mobile devices only need signs if they are used in the same place more than twice in two months.

Clive Chamberlain, of the Dorset group, said he was worried because we "should be providing public reassurance by high visibility policing".

Edmund King, of the RAC Foundation, said: "Recent research on the cause of accidents showed that excessive speed was number seven in importance. Number one was inattention, which might be drivers looking out for speed cameras."

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Super quote Edmund!

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Handheld and can target a moving object a mile away, they've got steady hands these people.

Has it been tested any better than the LTI 20/20 I wonder?

I suspect it is nothing more than the dodgyscope with new stickers on it.

Anyone associated with the establishment also featuring on the board of directors of speed detection equipment manufacturers? Perhaps a large shareholder?

Any investigative journalists browsing the forum?

I could just be paranoid of course

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DO NOT PANIC

I VERY VERY much doubt the accuracy being claimed. Targetting a car one mile away, that may be possible, but the amount of laser beam scatter is bound to cause some problems, hitting different parts of one car, or even hitting adjacent cars. Contrary to the information above from tha scamera thugs, my understanding is that the laser successively calculates DISTANCE, then works out speed. What independent studies have looked at accuracy, and will the data be made public? According to something I read some time ago, the LTi 20-20 laser beam is a full 3 foot wide at a distance of 1000 feet (think its on the manufacturers web site). At one mile, even with improved optics, it must be wide.

This government has really really lost the plot. God help us all.

Can anyone say, if convicted upon this type of pseudo scientific claptrap is it possible to force independent evidence of accuracy (i.e not just theoretical or what the manufacturers claim). Or is home office type approval cited?

Just imagine you make laser speed cameras, in a massively growing market, with many new competitors, wouldn't you want to be the first with the new 'stealth' technology. The question must be asked would corners be cut in order to 'prove' the technology was superior to competitors (remember this is a relatively unregulated industry in terms of how accurate they really are at measuring speed)?

How thorough and independent is Home Office type approval?

Final point, I am very suspicious of anything which claims to be accurate up to one mile, i.e a whole measurement. Is that a marketing slogan or an independently proven fact. Is it accurate up to 1.22227 miles or 0.9998 miles, or is it really dead on exact up to exactly one mile, and at what speeds. i just cannot believe this guff- and the great British press don't question it. Feed us more pap BBC - tell us how these cameras are just fantastic.

Should see a massive drop in road crashes in Dorset then shouldn't we - I thinketh not. lots of innocent banned drivers though. Rant finished.

LTI20-20 appeal currently in progress I think. Check out the forums on www.pepipoo.com


Yes I wonder, how independent. Could someone in the Home Office, or someone who has influence over HO decisions, favour a particular manufacturer

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DO NOT PANIC

There's a quote from a "Paul Smith" in The Sun:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004241541,00.html

When they said it's got a range of a mile there was some serious rounding up going on. Have a look at this brochure for the Prolaser III:

http://www.rnicholls.com/kustom/pro_laser_3_brochure.pdf

The specs say 4,000 feet or 1330m. Three quarters of a mile ain't a mile, though it's far enough.

Couple of points, echoing some things that have already been said. Out of curiosity I just looked through a camera with stacked teleconverters to convert the lens from 300mm to over 800mm, and keeping the viewfinder steady on an electricty pylon about mile away was nigh on impossible without the support of a monopod or tripod. I'd hate to try to photograph something as small as a number plate at that distance. Okay, you can get image stabilisation systems on some camera lenses these days if your wallet's fat enough, and I imagine 15 grands worth of laser gun would have something like it (though the pdf brocure doesn't mention one). But I still think much of the video will show a severe case of the long lens wobbles.

Next point, Zippy mentioned that the beam on older guns is 3 feet wide at 1000 feet. Look at the brochure for the new one again - it's still 3 feet wide at 1000 feet. It doesn't seem like they've improved the optics of the laser then. So what justifies the longer range? Again, nothing says how they've upped the range and retained accuracy.

Third point. Assuming it does all work as the makers claim, does anyone else think that this new laser gun is specifically designed to wallop us on the motorway? Think about it. The best use of it's extreme range is going to be on fairly straight, wide roads. No good having 4000 feet of range if there's a tree or a bend blocking line of sight at half that distance. On the other hand, take it onto a nice dual carriageway or motorway in the middle of the afternoon, and it'll be like shooting fish in a barrel. There's plenty of people prepared to do 80 or so on the m-way when traffic isn't too busy, and in spite of widespread disregard for the 70 limit they're still our safest roads. This thing is the best toy the scamera brigade have had yet.

Edited to add: Found this while I was looking for more info on this gun - http://www.kustomsignals.com/products/pdf/product_21.pdf. I thought camera enforcement could sink no lower than talivans on recently lowered limits, but the yanks have gone even further. Read it and be very, very glad you don't live in Florida.
And for ----'s sake don't tell the pratnerships or every plod on the force will be doing this before long.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Even the best snipers would say hitting a target, particularly a moving target at ranges much over 1000 metres, would be difficult even in the perfect conditions, and they Would use a heavy weapon and bipod.
The way that US cop was sitting, just his heartbeat would make kife difficult holding on a target long enough to collect the information necessary to prosecute.
If the police in this country were to adopt this method, it wouldn't be long before there were some serious challenges to the evidence and means of collection.
For heavens sake, people get camera shake with a 35mm SLR.
I know I got barrel shake with a heavy SLR(7.62mm Self Loading Rifle), even in the supported position, in the unsupported position as this officer in so aptly demonstrating, it would be very questionable

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

Hi

I have not posted here before but Enjoy reading info on this site

[/quote]Next point, Zippy mentioned that the beam on older guns is 3 feet wide at 1000 feet. Look at the brochure for the new one again - it's still 3 feet wide at 1000 feet. It doesn't seem like they've improved the optics of the laser then[quote]

Just Thought I would mention that the brochure also states the beam to be 3meters at 1000 meters so if my maths is correct(allowing for rounding) the beam at 1 mile would be around 16 feet. Hardly what I would call accurate

Exactly!

Reneging on pledge that scams will be visible as well!

Leads to indiscriminate aim - they will doubtelssly target anything that moves.

Knowing the climate we are living in - it is quite likely that they will position themselves exactly one mile from a speed limit change - whether tempo or static - and 14 days later - you will never remember exactly where you were on that particular road when they hit your car with the beam. Nice little scam a-brewing I think.

Poll in Wed's Express paper asked readers whether or not they thought this scammer was fair. 89% rang in the UNFAIR vote per today's result! Gather other polls gave similar results.

Not likely to improve relations with our BiBs - is it - Cous'!?