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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 01:52 
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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/ ... 38,00.html

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Drivers use address scam to cheat speed cameras

Gaby Hinsliff, political editor
Sunday April 9, 2006

Rogue drivers are evading thousands of speeding tickets by exploiting a loophole in the law that enables them to ignore roadside cameras.

One motorist has been clocked speeding more than 100 times without being caught, while another has got away with driving at 119mph in a built-up area. The phenomenon has prompted police to call for a change in the law.

The scam involves offenders registering their cars at one of a network of 'mass-mailing' addresses used legitimately by businesses instead of at their own homes. When the driver triggers a camera, the penalty notice is sent to the mass-mailing address. Police seeking the motorist find only a shopfront where nobody lives.

Speed cameras generated more than £114m in fines last year and are credited by safety campaigners with saving lives. Figures released last week revealed that the speed of most drivers had dropped as the number of cameras had increased.

Tory frontbencher Andrew Selous, who is campaigning for a change in the law, said uncontrolled speeding by individuals with no fear of being caught risked deaths and serious injuries.

'There is the danger, and there is the sheer injustice of it,' he said. 'If you or I are caught doing 35mph in a 30mph limit, we get three points on our licences and a £60 fine. People may resent that, but understand there is a reason for it. But there are segments of the population who have wised up to clever ways of getting round this, which is extremely dangerous and downright unfair.'

The MP, who represents Bedfordshire South West, was alerted to the scam by his local force, which he said had recorded 1,000 offences in one month alone on which no action was taken because the cars could not be traced. That figure could include some overseas drivers only registered abroad, but also those using the mailing-address ploy.

Drivers have been photographed gesturing obscenely at the camera, apparently knowing they will not be caught, but the cameras do not usually yield identifiable images of their faces.

Another 13 forces have reported similar problems.

Selous recently met South Yorkshire's chief constable, Meredydd Hughes, representing the Association of Chief Police Officers, and was told the association was seeking legislative changes. It is not illegal to register a car somewhere other than the driver's home; employees may be given company cars registered at the firm's headquarters. It is, however, an offence to give the DVLA false details.

The mail-drop addresses often consist only of locked mailboxes from which post can be collected, rather than staffed offices. Insurance may be registered at the same false address, or the offenders may drive uninsured.

Edmund King of the RAC Foundation said the incentives to cheat could have increased because more offences were now enforced by camera: 'It's not just speed cameras people are trying to avoid: in London it's things like the congestion charge, bus lane enforcement with bus cameras, and yellow box junction enforcement.'

But he said the planned introduction of automatic number plate recognition cameras, which automatically connect a passing numberplate to a database with insurance and other driver details, would be harder to deceive.

One of the most frequently used mailing addresses, in Chelmsford, Essex, has been used by drivers caught speeding in several counties. Tory MP Simon Burns, who represents the town, said the Home Office appeared reluctant to act: 'They argue it's all about company cars. But if it's happening here I would be very surprised if it's not happening elsewhere.'

A Home Office spokesman said the national identity register being introduced to back up planned ID cards would help, and added: 'We are examining how serious the issue is.'

A Department for Transport spokes-man said the DVLA database was '97.5 per cent accurate'.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 09:07 
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A Department for Transport spokes-man said the DVLA database was '97.5 per cent accurate'.

97.5% accurate - It sounds so good when you just throw it into a sound bite for the unquestioning media.

But wait! What they are actually referring to is the 97.5% monthly accuracy target. Primary school maths will tell you that the consequence of a less than 100% accuracy in database updates can only result in the database becoming less accurate over time.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 09:32 
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What do these control freaks expect from people, while I don’t condone them driving on roads illegally, and with no insurance, I can’t blame them for using a loop hole to get off with speeding fines. The government are more worried about not being able to trace the cars and the people in them (plus loss of revenue) than they are about saving lives.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 09:41 
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A Home Office spokesman said the national identity register being introduced to back up planned ID cards would help, and added: 'We are examining how serious the issue is.'


Hold on there...........I thought ID cards were not going to be compulsary.

Big Brother is comming

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 09:46 
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Dixie wrote:
What do these control freaks expect from people, while I don’t condone them driving on roads illegally, and with no insurance, I can’t blame them for using a loop hole to get off with speeding fines. The government are more worried about not being able to trace the cars and the people in them (plus loss of revenue) than they are about saving lives.


Indeed.
The more controls you place on people the more ways they will find to circumvent those controls.
History is littered with the corpses of control freaks, but governments do not learn from history, do they?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:26 
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This has been brewing for a while:

Quote:
Mr. Burns: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will invalidate the registration of motor vehicles at 25 Duke Street, Chelmsford.

Dr. Ladyman [holding answer 22 March 2006]: I cannot comment on individual cases. The law does not allow a vehicle to be deregistered.


Pete317 wrote:
but governments do not learn from history, do they?


I don’t believe they do, they all believe they're one better than the last, what concerns me is that I don’t want to live in a country run by a control freak government. I only hope the British people wake up, and that history is repeated. Can’t come quick enough for me.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:28 
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Quote:
Simon Burns MP, as reported in the Sunday Times, said:

"It's amazing that ministers seem so relaxed that unscrupulous motorists are flouting the law by cocking a snook at speed cameras and avoiding fines and other penalties that law-abiding citizens incur."


Does that mean it's official then: the purpose of speed cameras is to impose fines and penalties on law-abiding citizens...

:x


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 14:41 
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JohnF wrote:
Quote:
Simon Burns MP, as reported in the Sunday Times, said:

"It's amazing that ministers seem so relaxed that unscrupulous motorists are flouting the law by cocking a snook at speed cameras and avoiding fines and other penalties that law-abiding citizens incur."


Does that mean it's official then: the purpose of speed cameras is to impose fines and penalties on law-abiding citizens...

:x

If they dont stop them at the roadside when they say speeding is so dangerous, why would they worry about a few that slip the net compared with the millions who pay up without a fight?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 15:08 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
why would they worry about a few that slip the net compared with the millions who pay up without a fight?


It’s the ones that slip the net they are worried about, because it means they don’t have full control and others will start to follow suit. IMO this goes further than just catching speeding motorists. It's the big brother brigade.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 17:55 
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Come to think of it, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a complete change of government every year.
That way, at least no government will be in power for long enough to inflict any real damage.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 15:41 
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I like the American system better. When the President does something deeply unpopular, he gets shot.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 01:12 
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We get a little hint there at the sort of thing that the proposed "anti-terrorism" ID cards will REALLY be used for.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 17:08 
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There's something a bit odd about this story.

Presumably some mail from the DVLA gets through, or the car wouldn't be re-registered each year. If the mail gets through, then it is possible to trace an individual from the bulk address.

So why can't the police do that?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 17:20 
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Only by watching it 24x7 and arresting everybody that appears to collect mail on the suspicion that they are the registered owner. But the simple act of collecting mail from an address doesn't mean that the person is the addressee, and if they choose not to co-operate with the police, then they would have to follow them as well as watch the mailing address.

If you want a smarter solution then you probably need an RFID tag embedded into the letter and to track that, or to insist that all vehicles are regested to a single individual (!) and link that to their compulsory ID card.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 18:09 
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Rewolf wrote:
insist that all vehicles are regested to a single individual (!) and link that to their compulsory ID card.


Anyone fancy being a director of Hertz or Avis? :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 18:58 
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The irony is delicious. People behaving like crooks and liars to elude the clutches of crooks and liars. Who could have predicted it?

Maybe while they're at it they can make it a criminal offence to have no fixed abode. That should work.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 19:22 
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stive gonzales wrote:
The irony is delicious. People behaving like crooks and liars to elude the clutches of crooks and liars. Who could have predicted it?

Maybe while they're at it they can make it a criminal offence to have no fixed abode. That should work.


Perhaps they should bring back hanging for convicted highwaymen - and hang them high at the side of the road as in times of old :roll:

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Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:53 
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At least the vehicles registered to companies at accommodation addresses are registerd, insured and taxed. That's unlike the so-called 'traveller's' vehicles which seem, in the main, to be not registered anywhere, not taxed and probably not insured.
Accommodation addresses are quite legal and very useful for certain businesses, such as mail order companies and small companies working from their own homes. If they cause a problem for the 'electronic speed measuring obsession' which passes for road safety policy in this country, then that's tough.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 13:58 
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Soon there will be no such thing as a petty crime.

Since everyone's trying to think of smart laws these days to make sure no-one can slip through the net - everything's becoming integrated.

Soon one tiny (and rather trivial) offence will by implication make that individual Britain's most wanted.




And which would YOU rather be? Untaxed, uninsured, untraceable or completely above board and watched and controlled a little more every day of your useful lives.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 09:08 
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Errmm......

I thought ANPR was going to fix this sort of thing?

Or were we lied to again?


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