Safe Speed Forums

MOBILE speed cameras could be deployed as far as 12 miles away from any accident blackspot under new plans to increase the pressure on motorists who break the law.

And in a further onslaught against speeding drivers, the Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership has said it is looking into the possibility of parking its vans on bridges over the M4, M5 and M32.

Mobile units can currently only be used within a three-mile radius of notorious accident areas, but new guidelines being proposed could increase that to 12 miles

The move has been described as yet further evidence that speed traps are being used as cash cows, not road safety devices.

Safety Camera Partnership spokesman David Gollicker said: "We've been campaigning for some time to get the three-mile rule changed. On many roads you often cannot pinpoint where the blackspot is, but can demonstrate that there is a problem right along the route."

But Tony Vickers of the Association of British Drivers said the proposals would mean any stretch of road in the area could be fitted with a camera - virtually giving the partnership carte blanche to site the cameras wherever they want.

Mr Vickers said: "By considering the 12-mile rule, they are effectively saying they can put cameras wherever they please.

"This is the only option left open to Safety Camera Partnerships to rekindle their revenue stream.

"It's outrageous and will not bring deaths down."

So far, cameras have only been used on motorways in the Bristol area when there have been roadworks and the speed limit has been dropped to 50mph.

The Safety Camera Partnership had been in discussions with the Highways Agency about installing familiar yellow Gatso cameras on the side of the three motorways. But this idea has been turned down because of the danger of vehicles crashing into them.

Their white vans could now be parked on motorway bridges instead.

Motoring organisations fear this will mean that some drivers will be constantly looking up at bridges to avoid a £60 fine and three penalty points, rather than keeping their eye on the road.

Mr Vickers said: "Motorways are Britain's safest roads, so why do they need speed cameras on them, except to trap motorists and raise even more money?"

Partnership officials stressed the controversial cameras would only operate on the motorway once signs had been put in place.

The partnership admitted it is reviewing its policy after police in neighbouring Wiltshire announced that cameras would be used on bridges along a 20-mile stretch of the M4 east of Bristol.

It also said that the stretch of the M4 between the M32 junction and the Tormarton turn-off at junction 18 could become the first area where its mobile cameras would operate, as it has one of the worst accident records of all the motorways around Bristol.

Mr Gollicker said: "If people are travelling within the speed limit then there should be no reason why they should be constantly looking up at the bridges.

"We would do this for people's safety to reduce accidents, but at the minute will be concentrating on roadwork areas on the motorway with temporary fixed cameras."

Back in January, more than 1,000 drivers were caught breaking the speed limit at the Almondsbury interchange in just one day, when a temporary camera was put in place because of roadworks.

The temporary Gatsos are set to re-appear on the M4 and M5 again next month when work begins on a series of maintenance projects, including replacing crash barriers at the Almondsbury interchange and renewing street lamps on the M5 near Avonmouth.

They will also be watching over roadworks when the Highways Agency starts on a number of planned crawler lanes on both the M4 and M5. Work is expected to get under way on that project in March next year.

http://www.thisisbristol.com/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&nodeId=144912&contentPK=10826179

I don't actually see anything new in this.

Lancashire and a number of other counties have been parking their vans on motorway bridges since day 1.

As for locating them near an accident blackspot. They never had to. All they had to do was show there was a "problem" with speeding on the road.

Even if these guidelines did exist it wouldn't matter because they are just guidelines which they are free to flout whenever it pleases them.

Surely many Scamera pratnerships already use mobile units on motorways - Cumbria and Northants both spring to mind (also coincidentally two counties where there's a lot of motorway traffic passing through which is easy pickings for revenue)

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Wonder if Avon & Somerset and Wilts have got themselves a bunch of shiny new ProLaser IIIs and want to see if they really are good for a mile.

Like PeterE and Homer, I'm not sure this is really new. I've seen police on a bridge over the M4 apparently doing speed checks. They certainly had something on a tripod pointing down the road, and everyone who sw 'em certainly took it for a speed check, me included. This was a little way east of Slough, so I'm not sure which force it would have been, but TVP wouldn't surprise me.

Maybe the only thing that's really changing is that they're going to start doing this a lot more often. They've finally worked out that more than half the motorway traffic speeds when it's light enough to do so , and that's a hell of a lot of FPNs and totting up bans they could achieve.

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Dumfries and Galloway often park their vans on bridges over the M74 on clear afternoons when traffic flow is light and most likely to be travelling at speeds of 80 to 90mph. Kerching!

Their 'if people are travelling at the speedlimit' arguement annoys me as the 70mph limit is completely outdated and ignored by the vast majority of drivers. They're going to cause people to slam their brakes on when they sight their vans and cause a potentially lethal pile up - all because people are driving (safely) at 85mph on a motorway?

Driving at a constant 70mph on a quiet motorway is frustrating and tiring. Covering 30,000 miles a year on business alone I'm finding that even if I try to set my speed at 70 it WILL creep up to nearer 90. The difference in noise in a modern car is negligible. I find it much better to vary speeds on a long drive. Of course now, I watch every motorway flyover like a hawk now just in case.
I've lost count the amount of times a TrafPol has cruised past a line of motorway traffic which is doing 80mph +...because it's perfectly safe! they could weed out anyone tailgating, driving agressively etc...but the cameras, oh we've all heard it before now .

I remember having I spy books for long car journeys when I was a child. You know, cars, trucks, on the motorway. Is there one for all the different Talivans? There should be.

The M25 has had cameras for years. One time I was heading for Heathrow early in the morning I thought I saw a thunderstorm in the distance because of all the lightning flashes. As I got nearer I realised it was the speed cameras going off....more spectacular than bonfire night!

Just taking this sentance on it's own, If they cannot pinpoint where the blackspot is, then I would suggest they shouldn't be doing the job at all.
The blackspot is where the accidents happen.
Or is this too simplistic an approach?

_________________
Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

I don't think it is too simplistic at al and there seems to be a bit of idiocy going on down in A&S.

Spreading the location of cameras increases deterrent sure, but to try to justify it with crap is out of order.

_________________
It's Champion Man

Whell, what's changed? I have occasionally seen hand held cameras in use on the bridges over the M32 ever since I moved to the Bristol area 8 years ago. On 7th August I had just turned onto the M32 from M4 and saw two cameras in use from the first road bridge, possibly to check for untaxed vehicles but also could have been speed checks. About three weeks prior to this I was on M5 in the Sedgemoor area and saw in the distance something white up the embankment, partially concealed by bushes and a man wearing a day-glo vest. Fortunately I slowed as I realised it could be the police. On passing (at almost legal speed) I saw that it was indeed a police car with an officer standing at the front. His left hand was holding something black on the car bonnet and he was looking towards the top of the bushes further up the slope. After I had passed he swiveled around and raised the camera to point it at me. It would appear thet the officer's colleague was checking speeds of approaching traffic using a radar or laser gun and indicating to him any transgressors worth photographing. Fortunately, I never received a NIP.

This certainly isn't anything new. I was caught a couple of months back on the M4 South Wales by one of the white vans on a bridge doing a measly 83mph. Of course, I have the 3 points and £60 fine. I hate the way the transport system works in regards to people not having insurance getting away with it and everything else etc etc, but innocent people like all of us lot doing a safe speed on an empty motorway getting criminalised for it.

Just joined this iste, so hi to you all! Hopefully I may be able to contribute to something somewhere along the line!

Graham.

The idea of absolute speed enforcement on motorways is a very worrying one. We already have the congestion and danger caused by 'clumps' of LGVs all governed to 56mph to contend with.

Now imagine the chaos that would ensue if all the cars and vans were forced to stick to the 70mph limit.

I used to drive between 50000 and 80000 mainly motorway/trunk road miles annually for 10 years until changing job a couple of years ago.

I think one of the main reasons for motorway's excellent safety record is the fact that people often exceed the speed limit - carefully and sensibly.

This allows drivers to keep away from any closely-knit clumps of slower vehicles, overtake quickly and safely, and the increased concentration leads to far more professional roadcraft.

It is plainly obvious to me that the people who make the law are bureaucrats, not experienced drivers.

I've seen reported on another group that permanent speed cameras have been erected on the westbound M4 between Junctions 4B (M25) and 5.

My first thought was that roadworks were planned, but the person reporting them isn't aware of any in the pipeline.

Not my neck of the woods - has anyone more local spotted them?

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Re cameras on M4 -ANOTHER SITE HAD SIMILAR IDEA TO YOU -YET MORE ROAD WORKS - AND THERE'S NEWS OF CAMERAS/CHECKING AROUND THE SEVERN BRIDGE(IN NEWSWEB PAGES) AND APPROACHES - SAW A NEWS ARTICLE ON THAT.
TOLL BOOTH KEEPERS ON THE BRIDGE (IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY) ARE COMPLAINING (OR SAID TO BE COMPLAINING) OF CARS SCREECHING TO A HALT PLUS THE NEW LIMIT ON THE BRIDGE OF 40 I THINK I READ)
BUT THIS IS JUST FROM MERORY

CANNOT FIND ARTICLES AT MOMENT WILL KEEP MY EYES OPEN FOR THEM.
PERSONALLY EXPERIENCE SPOTTED SOMETHING LARGE ON TRIPOD WITH 2 POLICE (NORMAL MARKED CAR,BUT POLICE WITH NO HI VIS ON) ON BRIDGE ON SOUTH END OF M6 ABOUT 1/2 MONTHS AGO

Found article on severn bridge propaganda --its on bbc wales news

link if any one wants it is --it's about a month old.11/oct i think

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3732910.stm

Hadn't noticed any cameras appearing over the past few days, although the last time I was on that stretch of road (Saturday evening) I was in the passenger seat so I can't say for sure I was paying much/any attention to the side of the road... Though come to think of it, I do have a vague recollection of seeing the road markings associated with a camera, and not being totally sure whether they were just an old set of markings.

digressing slightly, if i may , around the midlands area S Warks on roads ,seen 2 of these, cant remember if one was on m6 - Ford Focus marked estate with what resembled an old fashioned car headlamp (circular about 6in or 150 cm in new moneyand about 4 in/10cm deep,) mounted on roofrack sort of blueish front and white rear, not a blue light, it already had on of these ,checking(APPARENTLY) traffic moving away .- could it be ANPR OR IS IT A NEW moneymaker.
ANY IDEAS ANY ONE.

Does the reduced speed limit apply only to the approach to the toll booths, or does it apply to the whole bridge? The article seems to contradict itself about this.

also found this other link, which gives more detail--IT'S ON THE FIRST ARTICLE AS WELL ON THE LEFT SET OF LINKS.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3714770.stm


according to this article these are talivans, and the limit seems to apply to the whole bridge although this article (3714770) says the cameras are on the west bound side.

still looking for that link to the bit about the M4 - HAVENT FOUND IT.

Just been up and down that stretch again today, and I can confirm that there ARE markings on the road just after the second-to-last gantry before J5 westbound, and whilst heading eastbound around lunchtime I noticed a couple of guys in hi-vis gear up on that gantry doing something... Also, the road signs on that gantry appeared to have the same rectangular cut-out along their bottom edge as the ones on the M25 gantries where cameras are installed.