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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 01:25 
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http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1622632007

(scroll down to..)

POST DISPUTE 'NO EXCUSE' TO AVOID PAYING SPEEDING TICKETS

DRIVERS who have been caught by speed cameras are unlikely to escape fines if they are delayed by the current dispute at Royal Mail.

Jim Dale, the director of the Scottish Safety Camera Programme, which oversees the country's speed and red-light cameras, said speeding tickets posted with enough time under normal circumstances for them to be received within the maximum 14 days would remain valid, even if they arrived late as a result of the postal dispute.

But Paul Smith, the founder of the anti-camera Safe Speed group, said that as the disruption was "foreseeable" and as speeding tickets arriving late would be invalid, drivers ought to send them back.

Mr Smith said: "Every cloud has a silver lining, and in this case it appears that motorists will get a welcome respite from the flawed and failed speed-camera policy. Once speed cameras have been scrapped, we will all be able to go back to concentrating on the road ahead - and it won't be a day too soon."

He added: "A vehicle owner receiving a notice more than 14 days after an alleged offence should mark the notice 'out of time' and return it whence it came by recorded delivery. That should conclude the matter."

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 19:49 
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I dont get it.. Does that mean that if you got the NiP late because of postal strike, the nip is invalid? cause you got one guy sayin it is, and other guy sayin its not. :? and is it 14 working days in which the Nip needs to be sent or just 14 days. thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 20:18 
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The question for me is around the fact that the NIP needs to be sent out so that it arrives within 14 days of the alleged offence under normal circumstances (or words to that effect).

To my mind this means that the postal strike makes no difference, as long as they post it 1st class within 12 (or even 13 days although that's pushing it) then I think it remains valid under the current rules, as under normal circumsatnces it would arrive in time.

I'm reasonably happy with this definition with a postal strike but I'm not sure what other circumstances I would be - Christmas post, not enough clerks at the SCP, postal workers hit by flu bug.... I don't know

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 20:19 
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Kevin. wrote:
and is it 14 working days in which the Nip needs to be sent or just 14 days. thanks.


It's days - weekends included.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 02:02 
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If this does indeed mean that the NIPs are invalid, then surely, if speed cameras (and therefore the resulting convictions) save lives, we'll see a temporary surge in accidents nationwide as a result of the lack of life-saving speeding convictions.

I don't believe it for a second of course, but anyone who really thinks that cameras save lives must surely expect to see this surge in accidents, otherwise their position is contradictory. So the mad ones (the true believers) will be expecting to see the rise in accidents, while the lying ones (the vested interest, money-taking crowd) won't. It goes without saying that neither party are likely to change their opinion whatever happens.

As Paul says though, a silver lining, and one which may well hasten the eventual demise of the camera empire; cameras were already unfashionable, but they must be viewed as a really pointless liability at the moment. T'rrific. :)

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"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:56 
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[ excellent signature, Bombus. ]

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:26 
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supertramp wrote:
[ excellent signature, Bombus. ]


Isn't it just? :yesyes:

It's worth copying because these posts will remain even if the sig changes. Here it is:

Quote:
At long last, it's the beginning of the end for speed cameras. Why has it taken so long? When are DfT going to admit that they've made a huge mistake, abjectly apologise, and make amends for the lives and cash which have been needlessly expended? How dare they put saving face before saving lives?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:57 
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Thanks both! :bow:

The "saving face before saving lives" bit was of course borrowed from Paul's PRs. It's a very effective soundbite and it puts DfT in their place.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 13:57 
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So.. if i got caught by a speed scamra during the postal strikes and the NiP was delayed because of that, im still screwed? Im a new driver was travelin about 78 average on moterway, i was under the impresion it was 80 mph limit from a friend. first time on moterway too heh.. i THINK i may have been caught but i only saw one scamra so i dunno.. yeah an i did thoery but that was like a year n half ago way befor i passed test.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 19:18 
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Kevin. wrote:
So.. if i got caught by a speed scamra during the postal strikes and the NiP was delayed because of that, im still screwed? Im a new driver was travelin about 78 average on moterway, i was under the impresion it was 80 mph limit from a friend. first time on moterway too heh.. i THINK i may have been caught but i only saw one scamra so i dunno.. yeah an i did thoery but that was like a year n half ago way befor i passed test.


If a camera van has snapped you doing 78 ish then IMO I don't think the postal strike will do you any favours, however this is my opinion and differs from a very successful lawayer who does this thing for a living.

What will do you favours is that I have not heard of anyone being prosecuted for less than 80 on a motorway by a speed camera, the ACPO prosecution limit is 79 and if your speedo said 80, it could be up to 10% less than that.


Hold your breath for a couple of weeks you are probably okay.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 20:26 
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gopher wrote:
Kevin. wrote:
So.. if i got caught by a speed scamra during the postal strikes and the NiP was delayed because of that, im still screwed? Im a new driver was travelin about 78 average on moterway, i was under the impresion it was 80 mph limit from a friend. first time on moterway too heh.. i THINK i may have been caught but i only saw one scamra so i dunno.. yeah an i did thoery but that was like a year n half ago way befor i passed test.


If a camera van has snapped you doing 78 ish then IMO I don't think the postal strike will do you any favours, however this is my opinion and differs from a very successful lawayer who does this thing for a living.

What will do you favours is that I have not heard of anyone being prosecuted for less than 80 on a motorway by a speed camera, the ACPO prosecution limit is 79 and if your speedo said 80, it could be up to 10% less than that.

Hold your breath for a couple of weeks you are probably okay.



Well it wasnt a van it was a cam under a bridge i was going under that caught my eye but i only saw the one. cheers for the info. and the last time i went on moterway was 2 weeks ago today. jus a lil worryed but its been exacly 2 weeks now so dunno if i should be..


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 17:56 
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There aren't any fixed speed cameras on motorways outside of roadworks -- all enforcement is done by vans parked on bridges.

The camera you saw attached to a bridge was probably CCTV or Trafficmaster.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 01:15 
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orange wrote:
There aren't any fixed speed cameras on motorways outside of roadworks -- all enforcement is done by vans parked on bridges.

The camera you saw attached to a bridge was probably CCTV or Trafficmaster.


wow awesome i heard that there are 2 cam's on motorway, and it measures your speed from how long it takes you get from cam 1 to cam 2.
But in that case i might be in the clear :lol: chears for info m8.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 17:43 
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orange wrote:
There aren't any fixed speed cameras on motorways outside of roadworks -- all enforcement is done by vans parked on bridges.

The camera you saw attached to a bridge was probably CCTV or Trafficmaster.


That's wrong. I know of at least two notable GATSOs, one at the end of the M11 and another just before you come off the M62 at Liverpool.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 19:28 
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Quote:
wow awesome i heard that there are 2 cam's on motorway, and it measures your speed from how long it takes you get from cam 1 to cam 2.


There are, but they are currently only used in roadworks.

Quote:
That's wrong. I know of at least two notable GATSOs, one at the end of the M11 and another just before you come off the M62 at Liverpool.


Sorry, I meant NSL motorways. There are as you say cameras in non-NSL sections, such as the southern end of the M11 and the M4 in Port Talbot and London.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 21:24 
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not forgetting those over the variable section of the M25 with the CMI signs.


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