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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 01:53 
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Daily Mail Here

Jaya Narain wrote:
The speed camera trap on M6 that's racing towards record £3m haul in fines
By Jaya Narain
Last updated at 10:54 PM on 09th March 2010

For such an innocuous stretch of motorway, it is fast gaining a fearsome reputation.
In little more than five weeks, this three-mile length of road cutting through the scenic borderlands of North-West England has smashed the British record for speed camera victims.
An astonishing 5,569 motorists have been caught breaking the 50mph speed limit by the fixed cameras at roadworks at a junction of the M6 near Carlisle.
With each motorist set to receive a minimum fixed penalty fine of £60, the cameras have already raked in more than £334,000.
And with three weeks of work to go, they are set to bring in fines of more than £500,000 in just two months - the equivalent of £3million a year.
The previous record was held by a camera on the M11, which raked in £1million a year.

Angry motoring groups say the huge number of victims is proof that speed cameras - which earn more than £100million in fines a year - are being used as a 'cash cow' by the Government.
Nigel Humphries, of the Associationof British Drivers, said: 'This has to be the worst case we have heard of.
'There is a bad one on the M11 but it is nothing like this - this is appalling and the speed cameras must be sited wrongly to have clocked so many speeding drivers.'

Claire Armstrong, of Safespeed, said: 'This is absolutely disgusting. This puts all the others in the shade. The cameras on the M11, which are questionable, were raising around £1million a year but this one would substantially beat that.
'This has nothing to do with road safety and everything to do with raising money.'


Mr Humphries added: 'Cameras on motorways are the biggest revenue-raisers because often people using the roads are not local and not aware of the roadworks or speed limits. It's pretty shocking that so many people have been caught and many will be furious when they get a nasty little surprise in the post.'
The roadworks between Junctions 43 and 44 of the M6 near Carlisle began on January 29 and will continue until April.

Kevin Tea, from Cumbrian Road Safety Partnership, admitted the figures were high but said the cameras were in the standard yellow boxes and were highly visible - as were the speed limit signs.
A Highways Agency spokesman said: 'We are concerned about the number of drivers who appear to be ignoring the speed limit, putting themselves and our workforce in danger.
'Driving through half a mile of roadworks at 70mph takes just ten seconds fewer than driving at 50mph - a ten-second saving that can put lives at risk.'

Last year the Daily Mail revealed that the number of crashes on the M11 at its junction with the North Circular A406 near Woodford, Essex, had increased by 25 per cent since a speed camera was installed.

Link to related article for the last paragraph The £1m-a-year motorway speed camera that is causing accidents

But they won't admit to them causing accidents. I can only assume that luckily there where no deaths amongst the casualties.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:40 
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Quick drift...

I was going to post a new item of interest but I see you already got in there Claire ;) I'm going to have to get up earlier :D

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... fines.html

:hoppingmad:

Anyone going to partake in the poll there? It's a hard call really because I think you should go slower through road works, when the workers are actually there! :roll: The question is too general, as ever.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 13:10 
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The £3 million is the amount it would raise if left there all year.

HA spokesperson wrote:
A Highways Agency spokesman said: 'We are concerned about the number of drivers who appear to be ignoring the speed limit, putting themselves and our workforce in danger.

'Driving through half a mile of roadworks at 70mph takes just ten seconds fewer than driving at 50mph - a ten-second saving that can put lives at risk.'

However, the roadworks ARE more than half a mile long - so why did he feel the need to show the difference of JUST half a mile?

So how many HA workers are injured by speeding drivers?
HA wrote:
Casualty Stats
Highways Agency Construction Casualties 2000 - 2005 - (all construction workers) source: Highways Agency.)
Year ........Fatal......Serious
2000..........3...........13
2001..........3...........18
2002..........3...........27
2003..........2...........10
2004..........1...........17
2005..........5...........12

Not all those result from speeding drivers - it includes those killed or injured by construction traffic.

Never mind, the money will come in handy!
And TRL research showed that accidents in roadworks INCREASED when speed cameras were deployed!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 14:32 
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To be honest, I don't really know how to vote here! There can be little defence for someone who "fails to notice" them - I've driven through there plenty of times and they are well signposted and visible. Clealry, if nobody is working, they're a bit pointless, but there can bel no excuse for not knowing they're there! OK, if all these martyrs are deliberately being disobdient to make a point, then fair enough, but I suspect that this is just numptyism on an heroic scale!

Good old Kevin though! I wonder if he still maintains that the best cameras are the ones that make the least money?! For someone who professes this creed, they sure have a poor track record! :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 14:41 
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Does a worker hit at 50 have a significant survival margin over one hit at 70? How did that advert go about 'hit me at 30'? Are workers often hit by motorway drivers? Added to the official stats on the increase in accidents when cameras are present in motorway roadworks these seem to be the least justifiable. They sure do make their money though!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 16:33 
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It's hard to believe any motorist would deliberately do it knowing they will be pinged though :?

I see good ole Dixie decided to post it as a new thread :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 16:43 
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RobinXe wrote:
Does a worker hit at 50 have a significant survival margin over one hit at 70?
I'm sure the troll argument will go something like 'you would be able to stop in a shorter distance thereby avoiding any contact with a worker'. :doh:

Personally I find it hard to drive into a worker at any speed because I never see anyone working. The M6 north from Birmingham is a 50mph joke. It's like they've parked all the heavy machinery, cordoned off the lane with cones to do work and then all gone off to Lanzarote. :banghead:

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 16:57 
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Big Tone wrote:

Personally I find it hard to drive into a worker at any speed because I never see anyone working. The M6 north from Birmingham is a 50mph joke. It's like they've parked all the trucks, cordoned off the lane with cones to do work and then all gone off to Lanzarote. :banghead:


I think the term "worker " is now not PC - aren't they called construction employees - and Claire will probably have heard this one up north -the definition of a road construction/repair employee "he wh goes along the road ,over the road ,yet never touches the road " :D .

In al seriousness , I find their safety precautions a bit iffy compare to those on the railway network. At least on rail -there's very little chance of a train veering into a group of workers ,whereas there's usually some form of prevention of workers moving into the path of a train .On the road ,any thing causing a vehicle to get out of control at any speed could potentially allow the vehicle to plough into a group , and I've never noticed someone overseeing the safety of a group .But again ,where there'sdanger ,there'll be some leeches (AKA road safety ) in the act ,though I was alwaystaught that safety was to prevent accidents ,not clean up after the event :loco:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 17:55 
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What portion of worker KSIs are where a driver exceeding the limit was a main contributory factor?

("main" meaning in itself, as opposed to a result of another factor such as being drunk)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 18:53 
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RobinXe wrote:
Does a worker hit at 50 have a significant survival margin over one hit at 70? How did that advert go about 'hit me at 30'? Are workers often hit by motorway drivers? Added to the official stats on the increase in accidents when cameras are present in motorway roadworks these seem to be the least justifiable. They sure do make their money though!

Oh and that is highly questionable too (Kill me at 30mph) - as it fails to allow for the difference between free travelling speed and impact speed the difference is driver / rider reactions.
Then I pointed out to them too all about TRL595 and how that Police make PIA's less likely by 27% and Gatso's 13% more likley ! Then accidents at roadworks may not even include any vehicle at all ! here and here.
It is disgusting.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 20:05 
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Mole wrote:
To be honest, I don't really know how to vote here! There can be little defence for someone who "fails to notice" them - I've driven through there plenty of times and they are well signposted and visible. Clealry, if nobody is working, they're a bit pointless, but there can bel no excuse for not knowing they're there! OK, if all these martyrs are deliberately being disobdient to make a point, then fair enough, but I suspect that this is just numptyism on an heroic scale.

Really ! ?
The question is
Quote:
Should speed cameras be set up at roadworks?
Read more: Here
To my thinking the answer is clearly a resounding NO.
1) TrafPol have a 27% benefit (see here)
2) Cameras distract motorists
3) bad effects to traffic
4) encourage motorists to concentrate on a specific speed value no matter what conditions prevail
5) people brake to ensure they are under the limit in case the cameras are set low or there is a fault etc etc
6) focusing on speedo and camera - usually 3x or so ... - so not concentrating on the road and conditions
7) there is no benefit - if something is going on at the roadworks we need the motorists to be observing and concentrating on this and the general traffic around them, not needlessly worrying about a specific speed and getting distracted.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 01:21 
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Big Tone wrote:
Quick drift...

I was going to post a new item of interest but I see you already got in there Claire ;) I'm going to have to get up earlier :D

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... fines.html

:hoppingmad:

Anyone going to partake in the poll there? It's a hard call really because I think you should go slower through road works, when the workers are actually there! :roll: The question is too general, as ever.


When I first read the article and seen the poll, I straight away voted NO. To me it's the same old argument, if speed cameras were to have been used for what they were intended, then we might not be in the mess we are now, however from what has gone on in the past 10 years or so, I now believe they are not needed full stop. I'm quite sure there are better ways of warning drivers of on coming hazzards such as schools etc. The rest is down to proper education and good driver protocol.

Speed cameras are now only one issue, what about all the other intentional obstacles they are placing on the roads to make driving as unpleasant and as dangerous as possible.

Take care
Dixie
:)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 03:59 
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Big Tone wrote:


I wasn't quite sure how to read into that Tone. As far as I can recall I post the article before Clare had posted about the same article. Just as a test the time of posting this is now 9:59 am. I wasn't aware at the time I was posting it as a new thread. :)

I could be wrong of cause. :)

Take care
Dixie
:)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 09:56 
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Ah, when I first read it I saw Claire’s name so maybe it’s the time difference or something. I think you’re about three days ahead of us over there or something. :D

It’s nice to see the public opinion is changing as the cash cow milks us ever more, all in the false name of £oad £afety of course.

As I said long ago, bring more cameras in, flood the entire land and then you will see the tide of public opinion deal a deadly blow to the Gov as the country grinds to a halt. Maybe then we can get back to real road safety as the lot get pulled down are replaced with proper policies based on genuine road safety.

:gatso3:

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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