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 Post subject: George Monboit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 08:54 
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Safe Speed issued the following PR at 07:32 this morning:

PR270: George Monboit: Debate Challenge

news: for immediate release

Writing in today's Guardian, George Monboit, erroneously brands the Safe Speed
road safety campaign as 'anti social', 'libertarian' and 'a boy racer's club'.
It is none of those.

And he says: "Safe Speed, with the help of some of the most convoluted
arguments I've ever read, even seeks to prove that speed cameras "make our
roads more dangerous."

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "George is wrong on all counts. He's wrong in his
descriptions of the Safe Speed campaign. He's wrong to take government figures
on speed camera benefits at face value and he's wrong to assume that he
understands the road safety consequences of the infernal devices."

"I challenge George to debate the issues of road safety and speed cameras in
any print or broadcast medium."

<ends>

Notes for editors
=================

See today's Guardian:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/columnis ... 55,00.html

To comment about the Guardian article please reply in topic:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5266

To comment about the debate challenge please reply in this topic.

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Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


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 Post subject: Re: George Monboit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:33 
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It might have helped if you'd spelled his surname correctly though! :-)

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 Post subject: Re: George Monboit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 15:14 
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pogo wrote:
It might have helped if you'd spelled his surname correctly though! :-)


Oops.

Anyway I sent this email:

====================================
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Debate Challenge
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:04:56 +0000
From: Paul Smith <psmith@safespeed.org.uk>
Organization: Safe Speed
To: mail@monbiot.com

Hi George,

Following your article in today's Guardian I issued the following PR:

=================================
<PR included as above>
=================================

I would have thought the Jeremy Vine programme on Radio 2 might be a good bet.
Are you up for it?

I'm on 01862 832000 / 07799 045553

--
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed

web: http://www.safespeed.org.uk
---------------------------------
promoting intelligent road safety

And got this reply:

------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Debate Challenge
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:02:24 -0000
From: "George Monbiot" <g.monbiot@WITHHELD BY SS>
To: "Paul Smith" <psmith@safespeed.org.uk>

Dear Paul,

if you would like to approach Jeremy Vine, I would be happy to take up the challenge.

Best wishes, George
===============================

I waitied for the Jeremy Vine show to finish then rang the producers. No one there. I left a message.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 15:47 
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Location: Kendal, Cumbria
Lovely Jubblie!

<rubs hands together>

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 16:07 
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He's up for it :!:

Well bugger me with a fishfork :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 16:25 
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Not surprised. I imagine George Monbiot is as certain of his position as Paul is of his. What that says about certain other parties who've declined similar debates I wouldn't know. :twisted:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 16:26 
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Are you surprised? He is a man with a great deal of self-belief. Thing is, even if Paul wipes the floor with him in debate, he'll still convince himself that he won. It's like the Welsh rugby team in the 70's and 80's - you could never beat them, you just scored more points.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 20:35 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Paul - spotted an item by this gent on PH - possibly you know about it - if so , my apologies - if not just add to your ammo

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... 3&f=23&h=0

and

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/columnist/story/0,932

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:12 
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Re: Debate Challenge]
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:07:55 -0000
From: "George Monbiot" <g.monbiot@WITHHELD BY SS>
To: "Paul Smith" <psmith@safespeed.org.uk>

Dear Paul,

well, we have had our debate, and I notice from your website that you have not alerted
your readers to this development. I wonder why not. So now I am going to lay down a
challenge to you. I challenge you to do two things. First to issue a press release this
morning alerting visitors to your site that your challenge was taken up. Second, to
send an email today to The Right Hook, requesting that they provide you with either an
audio file or a transcript of our exchange for you to post on your site, and, once you
have obtained it, to post it on safespeed.org.uk, with a link from the main page.

If you do not take my challenge up, I will, of course, use my own resources to
publicise your failure to do so. Please cc your correspondence with The Right Hook to
me.

Thank you.

With my best wishes, George

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:17 
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Debate Challenge]
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:07:05 +0000
From: Paul Smith <psmith@safespeed.org.uk>
Organization: Safe Speed
To: George Monbiot <g.monbiot@zetnet.co.uk>

> Dear Paul,

> well, we have had our debate,

No we have not. That was a 'chance meeting'. I stepped in to help them out at
the last minute when someone else couldn't appear.

Neither did the discussion have the agreed agenda of 'speed cameras and road
safety'.

I note that you used the opportunity to descend into an unwarranted ad hominem
attack. I expected far more from you than that.

> and I notice from your website that you have not alerted your readers to this development.

Wrong. You simply looked in the wrong place. Look here:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5277

> I wonder why not. So now I am going to lay down a challenge to you.
> I challenge you to do two things. First to issue a press release this
> morning alerting visitors to your site that your challenge was taken up.

There's nothing worthy of a press release.

> Second, to send an email today to The Right Hook, requesting that they
> provide you with either an audio file or a transcript of our exchange
> for you to post on your site, and, once you have obtained it, to post it
> on safespeed.org.uk, with a link from the main page.

I am already re-broadcasting captured audio from yesterday evening's
discussion. The following links apply:
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/radio.pls (listen now)
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/radio.html (how to listen)

I'm quite happy to leave it 'looping' until something better comes along. If
you want an MP3 (4MBish) please ask.

A 'chance meeting' on an Irish Radio station is not worthy of 'main page'
treatment.

> If you do not take my challenge up, I will, of course, use my own resources
> to publicise your failure to do so. Please cc your
> correspondence with The Right Hook to me.

Feel free. But please get your facts right.

--
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed

web: http://www.safespeed.org.uk
---------------------------------
promoting intelligent road safety

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 13:05 
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Debate Challenge]
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:55:28 -0000
From: "George Monbiot" <g.monbiot@WITHHELD BY SS>
To: "Paul Smith" <psmith@safespeed.org.uk>


Wonderful! You get your debate, and when it goes against you, you claim it wasn't a
debate. And the idea that I should not question your credibility - that's even better.
Sounds to me that you didn't want a debate at all, just an opportunity to put your
theory forward unopposed. All of a piece, of course, with refusing to subject your
research to unbiased expert scrutiny. However, if you really are foolhardy enough to
wish to repeat the experience - on the Jeremy Vine Show or any other programme during
peak hours on Radios 1-5 - I should be delighted to oblige.


With best wishes, George

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


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