Safe Speed Forums

(The so-called 'Traction Control' frowned upon in racing is actually coupled with a unique form of 'torque management' also specific to racing venues, as well as cars made by those marques that exist primarily due to their racing successes.)

Programmed properly, ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control, etc. are, IMHO, worthwhile. I - a minority, to be sure - see them as still improving, but in many cases, aren't fully developed. That may be another way [for me] to say that they were introduced prematurely, as a side effect of the mindset that seeks to mitigate or eliminate the consequences of driver error.

I can't cite specifics, but I remember reading about how insurance companies were initially unwilling to give ABS discounts, for reasons I provided on Feb 24th in this thread. I would like to think that society has learned to use ABS since then, that it now 'saves lives', and that insurance companies believe that they exist primarily for the benefit of the policyholder ... and that that's why it took them several years to offer ABS discounts ... but ...

I put on my seat belt primarily to help prevent collisions (I don't like the implications of the word 'accident') from taking place (see Rules #1 & #2). Thus, my seat belt might help to make me a better driver. Hearing that click signals my responsibility to others. My seat belt is constantly working properly, inside and outside of the car.

Most people use them primarily to mitigate the consequences of accidents (and secondarily to avoid getting a ticket). Therefore, that seat belt cannot possibly (except by accident - double entendre intended) improve that wearer's driving. That seat belt can only succeed during - and perhaps after - a failure, and then only inside the car.

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

Interesting! Insurance discounts for ABS! I don't think any insurers this side of the pond ever did that!

OK I understand the seat belt thing now. I must admit I only think of mine as a device to mitigate the effects (on me) of a frontal collision, but if the action of putting it on makes you a better driver, I guess that's all to the good!

What I still can't figure out, is why - at least in Amerika - no one has ever been required to wear a seat belt in a taxicab?

I wear mine by choice. I require all front seat passengers (one or two to my right) to wear theirs before I drive off. I suggest it to the passengers behind me. Though the law requires the presence of a seat belt for each passenger (seven), we are expressly permitted by law NOT to wear them in a taxicab?
"Click it, or ticket! (Except in a taxicab)"
Go figure.

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

In
this thread
regarding Safe HIghways of the Future '08, Mr Smith nails the point perfectly ... (I include the body because - IMHO - it provides richer context)
Has anyone ever heard of the idea that a 4" metal spike protruding from the middle of the steering wheel could prevent a lot of collisions?

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

Yes, it's a common one. Although I can see how it's supposed to work, something doesn't quite ring true though. Are we saying, for example, that if we had the spike in the middle of the wheel AND took away all seat belts there would be even fewer? Or take it a stage further and say that if we had a spike on the steering wheel, no seatbelts AND disconnected the front brakes on all cars AND passed a law requiring all tyres to be bald we'd have fewer still?

Maybe there's an "optimum" point somewhere on the line below which, things get more dangerous and above which, the same thing happens? I have sometimes wondered if such a point might "move" depending on the affluence of the society and the longevity of its people?

As a large majority of collisions result from errors of judgment, not from anything that could reasonably be regarded as rash or reckless driving, in practice the said 4" spike would kill vast numbers of people, including many who were not at fault in accidents.

In the 1950s cars in effect had such a spike in the form of an unshielded, non-collapsible steering column. The roads were not safer then.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I personally don't agree with the spike, or a non-collapsible steering column.

Generally, though, making things idiot-proof seems to work best when the number of idiots that fall through the cracks are limited prior. Otherwise, idiots begin real-world testing campaigns en masse.

How might a nation of 'Class One' drivers view the safety features in place today?

What sort of safety features might such a nation develop / support? Why?

I, personally, approve of seat belts, ABS, and very well developed and tested Traction and Stability Control strategies because they have significant preventive value, as well as mitigative value.

However, several types of errors in judgement are too typical today, most of which I believe are not reckless or rash, but nonetheless are rooted in a lack of proper skills and attitudes.

These errors of judgement also cause and support 'safety features' like Lane Departure Prevention, excessive traffic calming, and artificially low speed 'limits' (speed cameras simply exploit artificially low speed limits), none of which actually make drivers or roads meaningfully safer.

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

I will pop this story here.




A lot of incidents seem to occur with the Police Transit vans in particular


I have to ask WHY? I have driven similar vans .. have hired them when I've need to. I've found them to be steady. Maybe I drive at "steady safe but progressive". most of the time. Maybe I have the advantage of that blinking :teacher: called IG who notices everything - even when you think he's snoozin'

But why .. oh WHY .. are we reading of these incidents all the time.


I have some photos of the Green Lane incident (different thread) via e-mail. Trying to work out how to edit to "fit" ERN! MATE! HELP!

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

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They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
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KEEP SMILING
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Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I have had the misfortune to be involved in a crash (driven by someone else) as a young fella, I sat in front passenger seat and was very very drunk I remembered to put the seat belt on .............the crash happened, the front wheel shot through the floor, hit my legs, then my face demolishing a few teeth on its way into the back where my mate caught it on his shoulder.I have also be unfortunate to witness a few truck crashes and their results, one interesting one where a driver I knew got a windscreen wiper through his neck.

My point is that my experiences do not make me totally convinced that seatbelts always work but in cars seem to be more effective than not, yet in trucks I think the oposite is the case.