Safe Speed Forums

Yes he could have been driving to fast for the situation, but equally the car driver could have made a terrible misjudgement when deciding to pull out of the side road, and tragically paid the ultimate price.

I think it's important to avoid the knee-jerk reaction to appotion the blame to the tanker driver as careless right turns are a big cause of accidents. The tanker driver must have had to be going excessively fast for the driver not to have been able to clear it's path. That may have been what happened of course, but equally it may have been a mis-judged exit from the side road. Lastly it could even be a bit of both. With that however, both parties had an opportunity to avoid the accident. I believe the topic of having a second chance to avoid an accident has been discussed previously, and it should not be forgot.

I think we've lost the way in this thread somewhat.
Safety should never be about apportioning blame. Indeed, apportioning blame acts, at best, as a smokescreen, and at worst as a barrier to improvements.

Safety should be about learning the lessons, and trying to ensure that accidents don't happen again, and better still, don't happen in the first place. I believe that was what Fergl100's original intent was.

Yes you're right Teepee, my goal is to see if I can help make this junction safer using the resource of this forum, but I admit I do find myself apportioning blame to the tanker driver although capri was correct in all he said about the possibility of a misjudged pull out. Maybe I'm too close to the situation to be objective.

whatever the outcome of the accident investigation still a tragic event, a fatality, child lost its mother, husband lost his wife etc, the tanker driver if he was speeding or not will have to live with this for the rest of his life.

when i was still in the brigade going to an pi rta you could come across one car wrecked another hardly damaged yet people dead, forget my current role if a tanker even empty hits a car side on at 30mph then severe damage is caused, therefore less damage would be caused at 20mph

i passed my driving test at the third attempt i failed one on ANTICIPATION at a junction, should i go or wait, whether in work or not i pull out of a jct when i feel it is safe to, sod the car flashing me from behind, but i feel somewhat that todays drivers have no patience, respect for other road users only their own agenda

fergl do you have a lot of hgv's using the village, if yes get on to the local traffic managment dept within the police / council looking for alternative routes, vehicles under xx weight only allowed through the village unless for access

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now retired

No we don't have a lot of through traffic, most large vehicles are there for access. I presume this tanker serviced local farms.

How long / realistic was the drivers route and the time he had to complete it?

It wouldn't suprise me if he was under some pressure to get around as fast as possible.

Spoke to a delivery driver a couple of weeks ago. They have routes drawn up on Autoroute with no stopping time factored in at all.

I don't know the schedule this driver was running to. He could of course not be under time restraint but just in a hurry to finish work early.

and maybe the woman was trying to get home fast to put some tea on
for her family or the child in the car was a distraction.
I have seen lots of driver just see you and pull out.Its like you are not there.
Have given this a lot of thourgh and the only way to take out the danger is to put traffic lights in.
Vas signs do not work for someone local, as you get use to them.
Mirrors also dont work as you can look one way then the next and move off and before you now it bang.

There are several things they can do to minimise the danger, any of which would be infinitely more effective than speed cameras / limits:

1) Put up clear and unambiguous warning signs

2) Install a chicane at the bend to force vehicles down to a crawl. This would, however, have the disadvantage of being 24:7, where an actual danger may only be present for a few minutes of the day. Not to be recommended for a busy road.

3) Install a mini-roundabout at the junction. Same disadvantages as the last point.

4) Prohibit right-turns out of the side-road.

5) Install 'on-demand' traffic lights which are visible, or signed, from before the bend.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Gets my vote if they don't already exist and there really is a problem with the layout which canot easily be put right.


My experience of chicanes si that they do exactly the opposite. Drivers speed through in order to get past the obstruction before anyone coming the other way. They also focus drivers attention on one small patch of road. They can only make an accident more likely.


This is slightly better than a chicane but would it have avoided this accident? It would appear the car driver pulled out without seeing the truck or without giving it room to stop. Can't see a mini roundabout making this less likely. Traffic on the main road will have a "my right of way" mentality approaching it.


This Idea I like. And if I lived in the street I would support it but how many people living there will?


I think always on lights with road sensors would be another good solution but an expensive and possibly unsightly one.
I don't like part time lights at all. It is far too easy for someone to get used to them not being active then come through one day when they are and not have time to stop.

Stepping back from the discussion and viewing it from the perspective of an advanced driver...

When the side road is close to a bend or other visual obstruction an advanced driver familar with the location might choose to use a different route.

If any of you are regularly concerned about the risk of a crash involving an approaching vehicle in one of these situations, my advice is to try and find an alternative route.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Absolutely agree. There are a number of possible routes of of Albrighton onto the A41, one of which I don't use because of visibility difficulties. OTOH, when approaching this junction from along the A41, I give myself as much oipportunity as possible to accomodate someone emerging unsighted.

This is the only exit from a fairly large housing estate built in the70's. Unfortunately residents have no choice but to use it.

From all the suggestions I am guessing the council will favour a mini roundabout as they have just installed one in the neighbouring village. Whether this will be safe at this location I have my doubts. Stopping cars turning right from the junction sounds good but won't be implemented due to residents wanting to nip out to the co-op in the village centre. It is a tricky one.

Agreed. But this doesn't help people who are not advanced drivers, nor those who are unfamiliar with the surroundings.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Well it might if advanced drivers had a decent channel of communication to the wider public. We might even be doing it here and now - someone reading this might have thought: "It's so easy when you think about it like that! - I'll go round the other way".

But I'd really like to see the government with its huge resources delivering such simple and intelligent messages to the wider public.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Yesterday morning I was riding a bicycle to work. As I approached a minor road joining from the left from the local school, I saw a hatchback waiting to turn right at the stop line. The woman driving was not indicating ( no-one does anymore ) but her front wheels were turned towards me a few degrees. I looked at her face as I approached and she looked back but less than 2 bike lengths she just pulled out and stopped. I had anticipated something odd might happen and had slowed so I was able to swerve left so as to just miss her door (and avoid buckling my front wheel ) I was amazed that all the time she was apparently looking at me and only seemed surprised when she braked. I was too busy mounting s***** b**** and only thought of what was going through her mind afterwards. Was she asleep ? on medication ? totally preoccupied ? or looking through me to see if there was approaching traffic.

Just shows what bikers have to face everyday ! Have others experienced this ?

Oh and basingwerk ....how would a speed camera solve this ?

Frequently, and in something much bigger than a bike, so you'd think the puller-outer would be a bit more careful.

And has anyone EVER pulled out, then gone quicker than you, rather than pull out and go really slowly?

I think once in fifteen years in my case.

Then I surmise that you are faster than most folk on the road...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I was doing about 85 on a dead straight A road about ten years ago.

An Aston Martin pulled out on me when I was almost on top of him.

I went to just steer round him, and he just vanished to the horizon.

Suffice to say, I was not cross....

My point was that people that pull out too late tend to be the slow, inconsiderate, no-indicator ones, rather than the fast-but courteous Safespeed posting ones.

I freely admit I drive fast, but if I am in ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER, I don't pull out on people.

Last Friday my daughter, a learner driver, was involved in a damage only accident when someone pulled out on her on a roundabout. She emergency braked (so did her instructor) and managed to avoid hitting the car that pulled out, but was rear ended by the car behind her.
I don't know whether the puller out didn't see my daughter or simply didn't want to be stuck behind a learner. And as a learner, she could hardly be expected to make allowances for the tailgater behind. In any case my daughter is said to be "almost ready for her test", so presumably isn't too slow. I was encouraged by a converstion I had with her last week, where I was talking to her about the importance of observation, and she said "my instructor is always going on about that too". Sounds like a good instructor. Anyway, perhaps this incident has brought it home to her (if it needed to be).

Add to that my wife's car being damaged in a car park because someone failed apply his handbrake when leaving his car, which then rolled into my wife's car, and the smash just up the road from my house where a blue Escort drove straight into the back of a stationary queue of traffic waiting at the traffic lights, at around 40mph without any attempt at braking, it has been quite a weekend.