Safe Speed Forums

Don't know if it has been covered, but Cambs police want YOUR opinion...

Time to debunk the scamera myth!

http://www.cambs.police.uk/campaigns/a14/

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Troll baiter extraordinaire

Dear Rod Evans,

I am very pleased with the response to our invitation for ideas on how to increase safety and reduce congestion on the A14.

I have received several hundred e-mails, which means that it is impractical to reply to you all individually.

I think it would be helpful to let you know what I am intending to do. I have already met with directors from the Highways Agency, and was pleased by the sense of urgency they shared with me. I am also bringing together other agencies, including the County Council, Vehicle and Operator Services Agency and freight transport groups. I intend that discussions with these agencies, along with public consultation exercises I am now undertaking, will mean that we can implement some effective changes in the near future.

We have already undertaken enforcement activities targeted on the A14, which resulted in action taken against speeding, tailgating, needless and prolonged overtaking, inappropriate use of mobile phones and not wearing seatbelts. Where necessary offenders will be prosecuted, at other times educated.

We are collating the ideas that have been put forward and these will form the basis of the discussions mentioned above.

My intention is to deliver changes in the near future, so I am not including in my deliberations those suggestions which refer to longer term engineering solutions and consideration of other modes of transport.

Thank you for taking the time to contribute. All of your suggestions will be carefully considered.

Tom Lloyd
Chief Constable


I have made my suggestions one of which was to widen the road to four lanes in each direction so I am disappointed to get the above std. reply that no long term improvements will be included in his deliberation. The long term work is what will bring long term improvement to safety, work should begin now!
RJ

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Too much of our money is being wasted on supposed road safety improvements that are actually making driving more dangerous.

Here is a suggestion..Get rid of the cameras!!!!
I was driving down the A14 the other day. I was coming up behind a truck and waiting for a BMW to overtake myself ant the truck. When the BMW had passed I pulled out to overtake the truck. Just then the BMW spotted the speed camera that was being masked by the truck and slammed his brakes on. I had to do the same narrowly avoiding a rear end shunt on the BMW (and yes I was more than 2 second behind the BMW to start with).

I don't know if the BMW was even speeding but the natural reaction for many people if they spot a camera at zero range is to slam the brakes on if they are not sure of the speed.

BTW..I have sent this to the survey

How many accidents have been by these things on the A14

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Speed camera policy Kills

What is "needless overtaking"? Who is to determine need?

What is "prolonged overtaking"? Elephant racing? (The new term for l o n g overtakes by lorries at 0.01mph speed differential.)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The down side of speed limiters... If they cause hazards then maybe there should be a re-think on their application.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Only if they are in a stupor and don't know what speed they are at!

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I stole this .sig

Another sweeping assumption...

So you are saying that at any time under ANY circumstances with about 0.5 seconds of thinking time to react from seeing the camera that you know with 100% certainty that you are not breaking the speed limit. Sorry, If you said yes I would not believe you.

About one in three drivers automaticaly hit the brakes when they see a speed camera at short range. It's a natural reaction to a percieved hazard! It is easy to miss a speed limit sign when it is masked by a high sided truck. Thats why I see people breaking down to 30 in a 50 limit when they go past a camera, just to be on the "safe" side.

An unwanted side effect of fixed cameras.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Only if you are a risker. By the way, why is that drivers of German cars in Germany drive like all the other drivers in Germany, but drivers of German cars in England are likely to drive more stupidly and aggressively than other drivers? What can explain that?

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I stole this .sig

Never mind explain it, first I'd like to see you substantiate it!

Come on then, lets all play. What sort of car do you drive Basingwerk? You tell me and I'll make a sweeping generalisation about your driving technique. What fun!

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

And then explain whether or not it also applies to people driving German cars rebadged to make them look like they're English...



...because as an Omega Elite driver, I'd love to know if I'm supposed to behave like a stereotypical Audi/BMW/Merc driver out to score as many points as possible for "most reckless use of speed and proximity to other vehicles" in a single journey, or like a stereotypical English gent out for an afternoon of genteel motoring before parking up in a quiet layby surrounded by green and pleasant fields for a cucumber sandwich and cup of tea from the hamper strapped to the luggage rack


Mind you, if we're looking for aggressive driving, then my experiences over the weekend would suggest drivers of all things germanic are saints, and it's bus drivers you need to be very wary of - when my girlfriend (a bus driver herself) is sat in the passenger seat being even more critical of their driving than I was from behind the wheel, you *know* their driving is utterly abysmal. As for stupid - the number of people driving all sorts of cars who seem totally oblivious to simple things like lane discipline, keeping up with the traffic flow (and no, I don't mean breaking the speed limit just because everyone else is, I mean not doing 20-25 in the middle lane of a 3-lane 40 dual carriageway when you've got a clear lane in front of you), signalling BEFORE you pull out (if, indeed, they could be bothered to signal at all )...

So no, I don't think Audi/BMW/Merc drivers in general deserve the reputation they've got. There are some total idiots out there in such cars, but there are total idiots out there driving all kinds of vehicles - do we simply notice the German-badged lot more because of the car they're driving? And given the choice between spending all day driving up and down the motorway with only the worst examples of Audi/BMW/Merc-driver for company, or spending all day driving around town with only the worst examples of Thebadgemakesnodifferencetohowcrapmydrivingis-person, I'll take my chances with the motorway. At least with the aggressive driver in charge of a chunk of Germanic engineering, I don't need ESP to figure out what they're going to do - you see their main beams in your rear view and you know perfectly well they want you out of their way. With the urban numpty you often only know what they're going to do after they've done it (actually, sometimes even then you're not entirely sure if you know just what they've done, so insane and ridiculous it is that you can't believe anyone would actually do such a thing on the road), which seems to me to be far less satisfactory. They might not be blatantly breaking every speed limit in sight, but they're pretty much demolishing every other law and piece of common sense that applies to SAFE use of the roads.

Maybe because they still have unlimited speed on most major motorways.
Also trucks are banned from the overtaking lane at peak times on some roads. Very few cameras as well......maybe we should do as the Germans..

QED I say!

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Speed camera policy Kills

Yes, and they have twice as much carnage in Germany as here http://www.abd.org.uk/safest_roads.htm. It's odd that drivers of German cars in England are aggressive, though. I think it is to do with advertising. In England, hire purchase ads for German cars are aimed at some of our most vulnerable citizens – lonely, immature men with status and anger management problems.

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I stole this .sig

You won't get anywhere with that argument. See:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/international3.html

There are good reasons for the Autobahns to be dangerous - they are OLD! Yet the motorways in Austria and Belgium are TWICE as dangerous as the Autobahns.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'll skip the substantiation because it's common knowledge that men who drive grey, German cars are, in general, compensating for feelings of powerlessness and inadequacy. Twister knows about the Audi, BMW and Merc brigade. I'd add the Golf as well (although Germans call old people 'the Golf Generation'). I run two high-mileage four door saloons. The make doesn’t matter because I change them when the MOT runs out to whatever is in the yard. And JT, which is it for you? Audi, BMW or Merc?

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I stole this .sig

I'm sorry, but "it's common knowledge" just doesn't hack it as a means of proof. Or at least it might in your world but I'm afraid it doesn't in mine!

This is starting to sound awfully like the green-eyed monster at work to me. Are you sure it's not you suffering from "powerlessness and inadequacy" as you gaze enviously at all those lovely Audis, BMWs and Mercs gliding serenely past, while you rumble along in your "high mileage nondescript", wondering what went wrong with your life?

I'm only joking of course, but it's as valid a sweeping statement as yours...

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

More bait from basingwerk!
The list of German cars on the UK road is longer than basingwerk imagines. i.e most Fords, most Vauxhalls many VWs many DaimlerChryslers, and a few BMWs. If basingwerk was looking for bad driving examples being delivered with the cars and where they were made he should look to South Africa. That is where many of the BMWs we drive come from. The South African road deaths are an order of magnitude worse than the UKs so who knows he could be on to something or maybe he is just on something?
RJ

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Too much of our money is being wasted on supposed road safety improvements that are actually making driving more dangerous.

Hmm, Vauxhall's "star silver" paint could easily be mistaken for grey in the current autumnal dullness, and guess what colour my German designed and built Omega is... But that's OK basingwerk, I know you weren't trying to imply anything about me



Like most motorists, I know about the stereotype, yes. And if stereotypes were true, I'd be typing this whilst wearing a flat cap, with my faithful whippet curled up asleep by my chair. That should give you a clue as to which part of the UK I come from

I also know that a seemingly high percentage of the motorists who drive quickly on the motorway, using lights, horn and close proximity to aid their progress, do drive such cars. But what else would they drive? I see them as being the types of driver who want to get to where they're going quickly without compromising on their personal comfort - if they were just in it for the speed kick they'd either be on a bike or in a street-legal track car. The ones that can afford a truly quick and luxurious car already own one - they'll be the handful of drivers blatting past you (and in the process, making such a glorious noise ) in their Ferraris, Lambos, Aston Martins etc. The ones who can't afford to buy German will settle for something with most of the performance and comfort but without the badge. The ones inbetween get the Audis, BMWs, Mercs etc.

Now, given that the cost of obtaining a half-decent BMW or Merc isn't *that* much higher than getting something without the German badge, but the cost of stepping up to the next (Ferrari etc.) level is considerable, it's not unreasonable to expect that most of the drivers with this mindset are likely to drive a BMW or similar. That doesn't make ALL BMW etc. drivers insane speed freaks with no regard for other road users, but how many of the considerate BMW/Merc drivers do you give a second thought to, assuming you even notice them? Negative experiences tend to affect us more than positive ones, so if most of the bad driving you see is performed by people driving certain types of car, it's not difficult to see how you could then start to associate bad driving in general with those brands.


Anyway, don't use my comments earlier to support your point, because my reply certainly wasn't written with that in mind. As I said earlier: "I don't think Audi/BMW/Merc drivers in general deserve the reputation they've got. There are some total idiots out there in such cars, but there are total idiots out there driving all kinds of vehicles" - if you think this supports your stance on Audi/BMW/Merc drivers, then your interpretation of my words is significantly different to mine...

I used to be envious until I realised they were mostly on hire purchase. There is a sucker born every day, so I used the same money it costs for a nice Audi and, instead of buying another new car, I bought shares in a credit company with it. Now I travel using a new concept - bangernomics. Its better for the environment, helps the local economy (my local back street mechanic) instead of a fat corporation, there are no more repair bills for scratches and dents. No computers in my cars, so less goes wrong. No more car washing, waxing or other time wasting activities. No more servicing, apart from the odd oil change and new tyres. Cheap insurance and reliability guaranteed by the AA. Now I gaze at the dividends building up by lending money to those who want to hose it down on grey, German cars. With luck, I may be able to afford a private education for my kids with the many thousands I have saved over the years. Or maybe not, who knows?

The real power is in the advertising, JT, as you well know. After all, something has to fuel all that fear and greed to keep the corporations fat. Now come on, what is it - Audi, BWM or Merc!!! You still haven’t said.

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I stole this .sig

You made it clear that the Audi/BMW/Merc brigade have a bad reputation. How did they get it in the first place if it is false?

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I stole this .sig

From people who can't afford them starting malicious rumours.

Of course there's always the grain of truth. Clearly there are plenty of German Car drivers who fit the stereotype, in the same way that there are plenty of Rover drivers who plod along at half the speed limit oblivious to all around them, or even nondescript 4 door saloon drivers who "cruise" down the middle lane of the motorway instead of driving properly. But none of this makes any of the stereotypes any more accurate, does it? If I told you I owned a BMW would that automatically make me fit into your pre-conceived image of "BMW drivers"?

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!