Safe Speed Forums

I found this letter in the local paper. It is interesting because I have never considered these as hazards before, even though i am a biker. There are some interesting points raised, especialy since Bikers are always an scapegoat when road deaths go up. Maybe the planners are partly to blaim, making roads significantly more dangerous.

I have always been worried about the amount of white lines on the roads. You get significantly less grip on these in the wet.

As for gravel covered tarmac on re-layed roads......lethal at any speed.

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Speed camera policy Kills

surely the apex of the bend is on the other side of the road?... or at the very least on the white line (if we're going for the whole driving on the left thing )

I speak from bitter experience about road furniture .
A number of years ago a freind of mine slid off his motorcycle in a none too serious manner , only to slide on to the side of the road and collide with a sign post , a fire hydrant indicator and a telephone junction pole .
What should have been no more than a new set of leathers killed him instantly .
I honestly don't believe planners anywhere have ever taken this into consideration .

Probably why The Isle of Mann TT is so much more dangerous than any racing circuit.

Does anybody know if there is ANY consideration given to motorcycle safety when they plan roads, signs, marking etc.

As far as I can tell the onus is on the motorcyclist not to get killed if they slide on a contaminated road surface.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Right hand turn dummy!

On a right hand turn the chevrons will be on your left, just where you are going to end up if you skid off, straight into the upright edge of the sign.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Left hand turn, right hand turn, doesn't make a difference - the apex is on the inside of the bend, the signs are on the outside of the bend...

Today on a 15 mile commute into London here are some the dangers I faced on my bike added for my safety and connivance by local councils.

Inappropriate road marking

Coming from Battersea to Vachall as you enter the congestion charging zone the road is literally covered with marking that are lethally slippery in the wet and all on a curving line that most cars traverse at 35mhp but would have a biker off if they did the same over them. And that just one of many such inappropriate and dangerous markings on the roads.

Metal Drain covers/manhole covers

At just about every corner junction or bend there are multiple metal covers often in a pore state of repair so sunken or uneven. There nearly always on the line of travel and in the wet give about as much grip as ice.

Pot holes/pore surfaces

There every where and this is London the UK capital city and you can’t go 500m without having to alter your line to miss them. What’s worse as cars have got better and bigger 4x4 car drivers tend only to notice the very worse of them so give no consideration to the fact a pot hole you wouldn’t even notice in your car would have a biker of?

Spills on the road

I see more crap spilled on the road than I can count they days every thing from diesel to concrete and there is no attempt to clear it up. There is one batch of dropped concrete that has been in the same spot for over a year even though it is a hazard to all the users of that road.

Road furniture and signage

There is more information on more post in London every day adding more obstruction to my view and to pedestrians of the road and the traffic. I wouldn’t be surprises if 50% or the current signage could just be removed and the other 50% condensed and conciliated into more readable signs that would allow driver to keep there eye on the road and still find there way about and be informed of the local conditions and restrictions.

Pedestrians (ok not added by the councils but still very dangerous)

WTF summer is here and so is lemming season or something

When I was a kid I was thought the Green Crosse Code and used it now we have people that don’t have any idea of the safe way to cross a road.

Top that of especially here in London nearly every pedestrian is ether on a phone or plugged into an Ipod they are over load with distraction and just will not see even if they bother to look the 300kg of man and machine bearing down on them.

But what I find is worse is there absolute belief these people have in the fact they are invulnerable, so they step out onto the road and only then look to see if it is safe to cross coupled with a unwillingness to use the huge number of crossing provided for them.

Even after all this time driving and riding I still don’t understand why some one will attempted to cross a road 20 feet from a safe crossing and then continue to walk past said crossing? It just boggles the mind

And that just the simple stuff not counting the pore road layouts that force car cycles and bike into conflict (most junctions at traffic lights) or inconsistent use or signage (have slow signs on some corners and not on identical corners or worse the other way about).



If this government was serious about cutting bike deaths and road safety every metal cover would have already been replaced but it all about revenue and sound bites.

yes exactly.... right hand bend.... chevrons on the outside... apex on the inside

oh forget it i was just being pedantic

Not when you consider that apparently we are the most likely to be killed, yet they want more Truvelo cams than gatsos.
Speaks volumes really. We bikers are presumed scum, whos lives are not worth worrying about.

Seriously though, they dont give a flying fuck about any of us. Anyone who believes otherwise is seriously naive.
There are real solutions to saving lives on the roads, but they choose none of them.

Our incredibly stupid State Government operated roads department have just upgraded one of our major highways between Melbourne and Geelong. So far so good.

Although the gap between the two directions is quite large the road builders, in their infinite wisdom, decided that a barrier was required. So, a logical barrier would be a concrete barrier running down the centre line but noooo they have installed a cable barrier (three wires in parrallel running between posts every 5-10 metres or so only a few metres from the side of the road.

Not satisfied with that they decided this looked so good they started rolling it out on some of the motorways as well.

If a biker hits one of these barriers it is curtains, no ifs or buts. They would end up like grated cheese. BUT THEY LOOK GOOD and they will slow a car down rather than suddenly stop it so IT MUST BE A GOOD IDEA.

Total moronic imbeciles with barely a brain cell to share between the lot of them.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Might be alright for a car, but what about trucks? And you lot have monsters there, though maybe not round the cities. Sounds mental.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

cars bounce off solid barriers back into traffic flow.

deformable armco or cable barriers are meant to slow them & soak up some of the lateral movement so they dont bounce as far.

That may be fine for cars but motorcyclists are dead meat if they hit one.

The intent is not to stop the cars bouncing back into traffic, it is to stop them crossing the centre strip and hitting oncoming cars. Where the strip is narrow they use concrete barriers but when there is a huge strip, 30-40 metres wide, they are using these people killing fences.

Why not have a concrete barrier in the centre of the strip, 15-20 metres from the edge of the road? Even if a car bounces off such a barrier it will most likely not rejoin traffic!

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

It's hard to see the point of a barrier at all with a 30-40 metres wide central reservation?

How many collisions, I wonder, have involved vehicles crossing onto the opposite carriageway?

I cannot recall an incident over the past few years but I'm sure they occur occasionally, so for the risk of a car crossing the divide once a year let's put every single motorcyclist at risk of death.

Makes sense, doesn't it?

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Those barriers are popular in Scotland.

Not being a biker I didn't really consider them in that way!!

However, if cars rarely cross the central strip, do motorbikes not also rarely cross over to the other side of the road? Or are bikers more likely to come off?

(I totally agree with you that they are a danger to bikers but just raising a point )

I am also not a biker, but I would ask whether the biker sliding across the central reservation is safer with a few broken bones (potentially lethal), or ending up temporarily unharmed in the path of two lanes of traffic at 70mph?

In that example the biker is dead either way but that assumes that there is enough momentum and enough of an angle for the biker to make it across the central reservation.

If a concrete barrier was installed in the centre of the reservation the biker would most likely glance off it whereas the wire will just kill them.

The chances of a high speed loss of control that results in a 90 degree right turn is virtually impossible. The angle that the biker strikes the wall is unlikely to be more than 45 degrees and an impact with a concrete barrier 15 metres away from the road at 45 degrees at least gives the biker a chance.

In reality the angle is probably not likely to be more than 30 degrees.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

If we must have chevron boards why not have boards that go all the way to the floor and with rounded edges? I'll bet they are quiet forgiving if you slide into the board it self, more forgiving than a tree anyway.

Most people could tell the corner is tight because the road disappears without the boards. A bit like the "fog" signs on motorways, yes I can see it's foggy thankyou.

The biggest problem I find particularly when commuting is the new fashion for narrowing roads with on road cycle lanes.

this forces traffic together and leaves less space for bikes to filter.

you could argue that the rider should adapt, which of course he or she should. But the reality is the regulars get used to making a certain pace at a certain time. move the traffic closer together and we have a massive increase in risk as our reaction time is effectively halved.

with regard to street furnature and bends. I don't understand why they don't use flexible plastic stuff like on race tracks. It's probably cheaper too.

the government has just issued guidance to councils on making roads safer for motorcyclists and I'm aware of research into man hole cover design that is going to address wet weather grip for two wheelers.