Safe Speed Forums

Hmm. "Acrimony" This continues from the same handful though doesn't it my friend ? Kriss is not posting as NTC on there but under her established account name on odd occasions. |She's been a member since the site opened and has seen one of these trolls (spindift/Toomey/BWF/snelling/crowe/tabernacle and she tells me now bellevue) come, get banned and re-register over and over.

But Krissi's part in all this "acrimony"? She's my sister-in-law so I have to reply - else I'm "toast"

Krissi's first post as the "Nice Tame Cat" attacked the rock throwing thread and she received a lot of stick over it as I recall. When she admitted to driving a 4x4 for work purposes .... She was told she should ride a bike to all her clients. She's a vet and I think her reply mentioning the logistics of what her job actually entails was reasonable and polite. The responses, alas, were not.

She mentioned her tale of woes with the non-cyclists from hell expecting to hear "wot numpties - giving us a bad name" but the same handful just said she'd no right to be on horseback on a rural lane and her child should not have been on the pavement. She treated such comments with the disdain they warranted as I recall.

She countered some nonsense as posted by the pet troll on the internet and he resorted to petty and vicious insult when she literally "clawed" the T2000 quotes to shreds!

Let's see - we had the "roads are safer in Europe" (Howard) and she argued that more die on urban roads there and provided proof.

She argued for wearing a helmet and being visible in the dark - and we got some Grauniad garbage as "proof" that high viz jackets are not necessary. Er - it was the opinion of a "journalist" Not proof!

And if high viz jackets are so "unnecessary" - why is it illegal not to have one in the saloon of your car in Italy, Spain and now France? Just because everyone is wearing one does not render "invisible" - you are still seen more easily!


Krissi's argument on this would be as mine: we live in rural area and no street lights. We need to pick out a person in dipped headlamps well into the distance and this helps us see you. I wear one when walking. I even carry a torch as well. I most certainly have my Lupines, my helmet light and a reflective sash or jacket when cycling in the dark. The replies from the same handful, when I skimmed through to see what she was up to, were ludicrous to the extreme - even advocating wearing black in three cases - and abusively as well. I do doubt these people ride bicycles by the way. I do lurk on occasion when I've time and have never seen these people post anything about actually riding a bike - no posts about gear, saddle, frame, tyre preferences or getting in shape for a long ride. Course I may have missed their posts on Know How which is the area I frequent on a lurk. Why do I never register and post there? Time! Only have time to post on here and occasionally on PH as and when- and it's a gentlemanly atmosphere

As for COAST - she introduced in the hope of sparking reasoned debate - but the same handful just showed themselves up again.

Many on the C+ site IMO are socialists. In other words they do not wish to debate or listen to the opinions of others, unless it is that of their own. Even when there is logic behind one's argument, god help you if you don't agree with them.

Like many socialists, they can't see through their hatred long enough to conduct a decent, or legitimate argument. They will have conveniently ignored 95% of a debate only to concentrate soley on the 5% that offers the cheapest of shots in their favour. Even longstanding members of the C+ site are ridiculed and hauled into line at the smallest whiff of descent.

What is more concerning, is that it is these very same Guardian reading types are employed by local authorities (most of the positions are advertised in the Guardian or other left wing 'papers'). These are the very same narrow minded persons whom come up with barmy road engineering schemes, attempt to portray the word 'talivan' as being rascist, want to put leg protectors on motorcycles, including sports bikes, advocates the throwing of stones at cars etc. They then have the cheek to whine about punishments being given to motorists as being soft, when in fact many cyclists are the worst offenders of traffic violations, especially in urban areas.

Socialism is dead, outside of their Universities and cosy offices of the County Council, there is a real world within which the majority live and that majority won't stay silent for long.

Wow, you really don't... Or cyclists...

Hmmm... ...this isn't how I remembered the exchange of views, it seemed more a case of "six of one, half a dozen of t'other".

. That and the fact that NTC wasn't the most amiable of personalities

Coast you know it makes sense
Drive without it – you’d have to be dense.

In the valleys and over the dale
The non COAST driver will usually fail
To drive safely at all times
And thus avoid some mega fines

On the Cycliing plus pages
Bimbley brain must spend ages
On how to counter the felines from Appenzell
Who give those lycra lentilists absolute hell

But then his argument don’t make sense
But he believes those stats - so he has to be dense!

Wow, you really don't like socialists do you johno! Or cyclists. Or Guardian readers. Or University academics. Or County Council employees. I sense a lot of hate.

By the way, what is your definition of "socialist"? I think my political leanings are more "socialist" than anything else, but from your post I'm not sure that my definition is correct.

Wow, you really don't like socialists do you johno! Or cyclists. Or Guardian readers. Or University academics. Or County Council employees. I sense a lot of hate.

You wouldn't happen to subscribe to the same brand of Neo-conservatisim as good ole G Dubbya?

By the way, what is your definition of "socialist"? I think my political leanings are more "socialist" than anything else, but from your post I'm not sure that my definition is correct.

Road deaths toll doubles
Road deaths almost doubled across Lancashire in the first eight months of this year, but overall accidents have decreased slightly.
Figures released by Lancashire Constabulary show 70 people were killed in 64 road smashes in that time compared with just 39 people in 36 collisions in the same period last year.
However, the statistics, which compared January to September this year with the same period last year, show serious injury incidents fell slightly from 657 to 643.
The number of people injured overall in car accidents also dropped from 5,048 to 5,027.
Christine Connor, who lost her husband Charlie in an horrific motorcycle accident in 2003, said: "We need to find out why fatalities are going up and, if it's speeding, then we need more speed cameras.
"It's encouraging to see overall casualties are going down, but I would encourage all motorists to remember a car can be a lethal weapon. People should be careful on the roads, otherwise the next time their relatives see them could be in a morgue."
The 60-year-old secretary from Longridge was riding pillion on her husband's Yamaha when it is believed he made a mistake on a bend and crashed head-on into a Rover.
She was thrown from the bike and escaped with bruises.
Vince Yearly, the national spokesman for the Institute of Advanced Motorists, said: "95% of these tragedies are down to driver error, not necessarily from the person killed, but by someone involved.
"To reduce accidents people should consider improving their driving. Becoming more aware of potential hazards, 360 degrees around the car, and ensuring you have time to stop are important. Motorists should make allowances if they are being tailgated."
In Preston, the number of people who died on the roads from January to September remained constant at three deaths in three smashes for both 2004 and 2005 - making it the only area not to show an increase.
The biggest rises were in the constabulary's Southern and Eastern Divisions where there were 10 more deaths than last year in each area.
This year, in Southern Division, which covers Leyland, Chorley and Skelmersdale, 21 people died in 17 fatal collisions during the first eight months of the year.
Deaths in motorway smashes also rose from two dead in two crashes to seven killed in six smashes, while in the north of the county, road fatalities increased from nine to 12.
In Preston, the number of people who were seriously injured fell very slightly from 75 to 72, while in Southern Division it rose from 177 last year to 193 this year.
But on the county's motorways, only 23 people were seriously hurt compared with 33 last year.
In the North, there were just 87 serious injuries so far this year compared with 98 over the same time last year.
A Lancashire Constabulary spokesman said: "It is a real concern that fatalities have increased and unfortunately this problem is not just restricted to Lancashire.
"Police forces in other areas of the country are also witnessing a rise in fatal road traffic collisions.
"It is difficult to give exact reasons for the increase as most fatal collisions are caused by a combination of factors such as excess or inappropriate speed, drink driving and the inexperience of younger drivers.
"Another factor this year has been the good weather in Lancashire over the summer months, resulting in more cars and a lot more motorbikes on our roads."
The force has now set up a Casualty Reduction Group with police officers, Lancashire County Council and the Lancashire Partnership for Road Safety.
The spokesman said: "When a fatal road traffic collision occurs a wide range of resources are deployed to that area so that we can try to understand the causes and work towards effective solutions."
24 September 2005

Here we go, just because i don't sign up to socialist values i'm branded a neo-conservative. It's interesting how you use the term "neo" in an attempt to portray the knuckle scraping, shaven headed thug image, how very socialist of you. If you wish me to paint you a picture of socialism i'd say Will Self. If you read his 'book' and agree with everything he says, then yes i'd call you a socialist, commy or whatever other term you prefer 'comrade'.

I don't hate as you say, I work with a 'socialist' and Guardian reader we may differ politically but on the whole he's a decent chap. He at least however, is open to reason, unlike some of your friends on C+.

Oh, one last thing, i am a cyclist, have been since the age of about 5 and I cycle everyday other than weekends whereby I use my car.

when in fact many cyclists are the worst offenders of traffic violations, especially in urban areas.

In johno's defence, the nutters on c+, who presumably are the same c*nts breaking every known road rule while riding around London, give the rest of us a bad name. They need to wake up to themselves and realise that they themselves are the cause of a lot of the grief that cyclists get.

Okay, enough of this C+ stuff, I'm beating a hasty retreat!

It's been emotional!

See youse.

CW had an excellent reader's letter some weeks ago in which the writer urged other riders to communicate with each other on the road to try to promote "good practice".

the response I usually get to "it's still red mate" is along the lines of "get f*cked".

...everyone knows there's irresponsible cyclists and irresponsible motorists, and more often the not the percentages seem to be equivalent.

No Peyote, don't retreat, I apologise for my boombastic approach, I really shouldn't post when I'm at work. One can be much more relaxed with a beer and a 'fag' at home. I think we all appreciate another perspective. I accept that you at least are attempting to do that.

I just think that there's room for everyone on the roads and for that matter for the roads to be a safe environment for all. I think if we can de-politicise the rights and wrongs of cameras (and I accept my contribution to that needs an overhaul) and debate all aspects of road safety then we should all be able to benefit and learn.

One of the reasons I like this site is that in reality, it isn't just about the cameras, one learns that there is more to roadcraft than watching one's speed and I have learnt a heck of a lot, I just wish the Government would. It doesn't necessarily make me a better driver but I like to think it makes me a wiser driver. It also has brought to me some home truths about my own driving habits and has enabled me to appreciate other road users more, especially wagon drivers whom are up against it as well.