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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 19:12 
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spirit of dog-in-the-manger ill-will


Lovely phrase sir - sums them up a treat!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 19:33 
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basingwerk wrote:
The prevalent mode of driving nowadays is the “lunge and lurch”
technique. Lunge and lurchers unnecessarily blast off as fast as they can
then lurch on the brakes suddenly.

But there are lots of reasons for driving very gently. Some drivers have
small children or even babies in the car – you don’t want to wake them up
just because there’s a lazy or impatient bonehead behind who has set out
too late.

Other drivers have stuff like laptop computers, musical instruments or
trays of eggs on the back seat, while some passengers get motion
sickness if they are driven too fast. Other people are just not in a hurry at
all, so tough shit if you’re behind, basically.

Another reason is fuel economy – using the peddles too much is a good
way to burn up fuel – it is just as effective to spill it on the floor and set
light to it once you have finished your journey. Lunging and lurching
causes unnecessary wear on the car, especially the brakes and tyres –
you can get a lot more miles out of a jalopy if it has been driven by a
gentle driver, rather than a lunger. If you can get a decent jalopy, it’s
worth driving it very gently to avoid expensive repairs at MOT time.
Basically, you can drive 10 times cheaper than the lungers/lurchers, who
also wreck their cars more frequently due to mistimings and collisions.

In general, it’s best to set out a bit earlier and drive very gently, avoiding
any ostentatious lunging and lurching – it just pisses everybody off and
increases the call for more cameras.


That's not the way the prats I'm thinking about drive. Smoothness is not one of their aims, otherwise why is it that they potter along at 40-50 and see a car ahead stopped with its right indicator on waiting to turn, instead of doing what a sensible driver would do and slack off a bit and give the turning vehicle a chance to get out of the way, they brake at the last moment and end up stopped behind the turning vehicle. And then take all day to get back up to speed! grrrrr

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 19:49 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
that is the spirit of dog-in-the-manger ill-will that emanates from most slow, obstructive drivers.


Could that be paranoia, though, Johnnytheboy? Driving very gently, slowly,
calmly and carefully is a real source of joy, but cars sometimes bring out the
worst in impatient, tailgating curmudgeons.


Johnnytheboy wrote:
I really don't mind people driving slowly, and wouldn't dream of wanting them to go faster than they felt capable of doing


It would be very poor policy to go after blokes who drive well within their
capabilities – we should all do that, I would have thought. It is far better
to go after the ones who drive too fast for their capabilities who
should get it in the neck, especially if they don’t have a clue about how
crap they really are.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 19:58 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Quote:
or get a veggie-pack delivered!


And let the poor delivery driver worry about getting through the godawful mess they've made of the middle of Winchester ("Which way should we have the traffic flow in Parchment St. this week councillor?"), then try and offload your shopping without being ticketed.


I know - it's all going to pot, isn't it? The reason is simple - over population. There are too many people in the world, and they are all arguing over the same stuff - basically, most people just want everybody else to get lost. Strangely, all of these problems (speed cameras, traffic congestion, the cost of fuel, dah dah dah) are always SEFs (Someone Else's Fault) and it's never us, is it?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 20:47 
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basingwerk wrote:
The reason is simple - over population.


And I'm sure that you, being the community-spirited fellow you are, will be one of the first to sign up for the voluntary euthanasia programme.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 20:56 
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Pete317 wrote:
basingwerk wrote:
The reason is simple - over population.


And I'm sure that you, being the community-spirited fellow you are, will be one of the first to sign up for the voluntary euthanasia programme.


Or failing that - the voluntary high vasectomy program -it's done on the neck :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 21:22 
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Pete317 wrote:
And I'm sure that you, being the community-spirited fellow you are, will be one of the first to sign up for the voluntary euthanasia programme.


I hope there is no need for that - bad driving is killing off 500,000 a year globally, and I understand from your convictions that you are doing your bit to help make it more!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 21:38 
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Quote:
BW

I just cannot understand all you intelligent blokes playing into berk the troll's hands He's so bigoted, his head's up his own a**e so far that he'll NEVER see the light



nuff said ??

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 21:43 
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botach wrote:
Saw this in some or other mag, and got me thinking --
"Can a hearse carrying a corpse drive in the carpool lane?" After all, cars with a driver and an MP will be eligible :lol:


If it is your corpse, it is well worth the sacrifice of one lane :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 23:20 
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basingwerk wrote:
Johnnytheboy wrote:
that is the spirit of dog-in-the-manger ill-will that emanates from most slow, obstructive drivers.


Could that be paranoia, though, Johnnytheboy? Driving very gently, slowly,
calmly and carefully is a real source of joy, but cars sometimes bring out the
worst in impatient, tailgating curmudgeons.


Johnnytheboy wrote:
I really don't mind people driving slowly, and wouldn't dream of wanting them to go faster than they felt capable of doing



It would be very poor policy to go after blokes who drive well within their
capabilities – we should all do that, I would have thought. It is far better
to go after the ones who drive too fast for their capabilities who
should get it in the neck, especially if they don’t have a clue about how
crap they really are.


Or to simplify, allow people individual liberty OR control every aspect of their lives, make everyone behave in the way that you think is 'correct'.


Oh, and...
basingwerk wrote:
It would be very poor policy to go after blokes who drive well within their capabilities ....It is far better
to go after the ones who drive too fast for their capabilities who
should get it in the neck, especially if they don’t have a clue about how
crap they really are.

How do we go about identifying and isolating this sub- and sub-sub-set?


Gender and capability sensitive cameras? :?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 23:55 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
basingwerk wrote:
cars sometimes bring out
the worst in impatient, tailgating curmudgeons ... It would be very poor
policy to go after blokes who drive well within their capabilities – we
should all do that, I would have thought. It is far better to go after the
ones who drive too fast for their capabilities who should get it in
the neck, especially if they don’t have a clue about how crap they really
are.


Or to simplify, allow people individual liberty OR control every aspect
of their lives, make everyone behave in the way that you think is
'correct'.


Yeah – the idea is that people should feel that driving is a privilege to be
earned, not a divine right. That is done by watching how people drive, and
providing feedback. That’s the way to improve things.


Johnnytheboy wrote:
Oh, and...
basingwerk wrote:
blokes

How do we go about identifying and isolating this sub- and sub-sub-set? Gender and capability sensitive cameras? :?


Right again. That means full, signed electronic trusted disclosure when
you drive. We know from insurance company rates that the main focus
must be on blokes, perhaps because they are more likely to act
immaturely and irresponsibly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 23:57 
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basingwerk wrote:
Other people are just not in a hurry at
all, so tough shit if you’re behind, basically.


Might it not be more considerate to pull over?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 08:33 
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basingwerk wrote:
We know from insurance company rates that the main focus must be on blokes, perhaps because they are more likely to act immaturely and irresponsibly.


Again, how to target this subset? Can't do it with cameras; four out of five speeding fines accrued by my staff since I've worked there have been by women in their (at the time) fifties.

Funnily enough, going back to the original topic, the ladies in question are rather of the '50 everywhere' persuasion...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 18:10 
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Yokel wrote:
basingwerk wrote:
Other people are just not in a hurry at all, so tough shit if you’re behind, basically.


Might it not be more considerate to pull over?


Yes, it is, but it's tough shit if you are the one behind. Other people may pull over, but that's thier choice isn't it, unless you have an exocet missile to blast them off the road!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 18:11 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Funnily enough, going back to the original topic, the ladies in question are rather of the '50 everywhere' persuasion...


And you concede they got stung for speeding? Surely that's an endorsement of the approach?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 19:04 
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Surely that's an endorsement of the approach?


What, of targetting blokes?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:39 
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BW I simply don't understand your point. You appear to try to make a different point in every post, yet each post is in response to a previous, where you preach a different point.

And yes, it's tough shit getting stuck behind a rolling obstruction. Likewise it's tough shit for them if I unleash full throttle and wake them up rudely as I pass them.

The trouble with what you're saying BW, is that it reads as being very one sided. Whether it's your intention to try to apply double standards in favour of the slow drivers or not is unclear, but you certainly come across as being bias towards the slow drivers liberties at the expense of the faster driver's liberties.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:05 
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jamie_duff wrote:
And yes, it's tough shit getting stuck behind a rolling obstruction. Likewise it's tough shit for them if I unleash full throttle and wake them up rudely as I pass them.


I think this is rather unfair. People may have a reason for driving slowly. Maybe they've just passed their test and aren't very confident. Maybe they're elderly and aren't very confident. Maybe they're lost. Maybe they're driving on a spare tyre. Although I agree that if they continue to do their 40mph-50mph through 30mph limited villages it's hard to view them as anything other than an idiot...

In any case, though, we should not view other road users as "obstructions"!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:51 
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guron83 wrote:
I think this is rather unfair. People may have a reason for driving slowly. Maybe they've just passed their test and aren't very confident. Maybe they're elderly and aren't very confident. Maybe they're lost. Maybe they're driving on a spare tyre. Although I agree that if they continue to do their 40mph-50mph through 30mph limited villages it's hard to view them as anything other than an idiot...


Hold on, we're constantly reminded by BW and his ilk that a licence is not a right but a privelege. That anyone holding a drivers licence should be expected to conform to a certain standard.
So far, I agree.
But, as far as they're concerned, you conform to a certain standard until the moment you drift over the speed limit. In other words, provided you're within the speed limit you can drive as gormlessly, nervously, inconsiderately, selfishly or erratically as you like. Why should incompetent (for whatever reason) drivers be allowed the privelege of having a licence?

Imagine if the same applied to the railways. Imagine high-speed passenger trains being constantly held up by slow-moving goods trains. It just wouldn't be tolerated.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 15:36 
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Pete317 wrote:
In other words, provided you're within the speed limit you can drive as gormlessly, nervously, inconsiderately, selfishly or erratically as you like.


There is definitely more to safe driving than staying within the speed limit, and present policy places too much emphasis on that part. But does the perception that you can do what you like as long as you're within the limit actually exist?

Quote:
Why should incompetent (for whatever reason) drivers be allowed the privelege of having a licence?


The point I was making was that slow drivers aren't always incompetent. They may be driving on a spare tyre or whatever. As regards less confident drivers - well, a slow timid driver driving within his capabilities is surely better than a boy racer driving like a bolted horse everywhere although I agree that it wouldn't do any harm for them to pull over once in a while.

Quote:
Imagine if the same applied to the railways. Imagine high-speed passenger trains being constantly held up by slow-moving goods trains. It just wouldn't be tolerated.


We need to get rid of this idea of "everyone who drives slower than me is an idiot and everyone who drives faster is a maniac..."

Face facts. Some people aren't as skilled drivers as you, and will drive slower. Live with it. Leave earlier.


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