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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 18:08 
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JT wrote:
If I told you I owned a BMW would that automatically make me fit into your pre-conceived image of "BMW drivers"?


Yes, if it is a grey one.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 18:19 
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Rod Evans wrote:
More bait from basingwerk!


This is reasonable to discuss, Rod. It seems the UK drivers are susceptible to advertsiments of a Tutonic slant, showing that the mythical power of Thor can be used to infiltrate imaginative and subtle English minds, and turn them into power hungry road dominators. This is a threat from Europe!

Rod Evans wrote:
The list of German cars on the UK road is longer than basingwerk imagines. i.e most Fords,

Including my onw, and is hasn't rusted out yet. But I don't mean American firms - I mean the Bavarians and thier ilk, who are out to enslave out fair isle by economic means.

Rod Evans wrote:
maybe he is just on something?


Speak for yourself. I hear the welsh like the odd Magic Mushroom, eh Rod, boyo.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 18:31 
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basingwerk wrote:
Rod Evans wrote:
The list of German cars on the UK road is longer than basingwerk imagines. i.e most Fords,

Including my onw, and is hasn't rusted out yet. But I don't mean American firms - I mean the Bavarians and thier ilk, who are out to enslave out fair isle by economic means.

Don't mention the war! :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 19:03 
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basingwerk wrote:
Including my onw, and is hasn't rusted out yet. But I don't mean American firms - I mean the Bavarians and thier ilk, who are out to enslave out fair isle by economic means.


Thats why I drive a British built car. So does my wife. You can't moan about the decline in British industry if you are partialy responsible.

The motorbikes we own are foreign though, still can't have everything. :oops:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 20:19 
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Basingwerk writes:-
This is reasonable to discuss, Rod. It seems the UK drivers are susceptible to advertsiments of a Tutonic slant, showing that the mythical power of Thor can be used to infiltrate imaginative and subtle English minds, and turn them into power hungry road dominators. This is a threat from Europe!

Including my onw, and is hasn't rusted out yet. But I don't mean American firms - I mean the Bavarians and thier ilk, who are out to enslave out fair isle by economic means.

Rod Evans wrote:
maybe he is just on something?

Speak for yourself. I hear the welsh like the odd Magic Mushroom, eh Rod, boyo.[/quote]


Basingwerk,Basingwerk,Basingwerk, do you never tire of being predictable?

I have to enlighten you, your predilection to stereotype has failed you.

Firstly, Shropshire is not in Wales and second not all people called Evans are Welsh though I would be happy to be such, sadly I am not.
As far as magic mushrooms are concerned the next one I consume will be the first.
On a slightly more serious note the "Europeans" are not out to enslave us that was already achieved in 1066. The real threat is from the good old US of A and I am speaking from personal experience.
RJ

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 21:18 
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Rod Evans wrote:
I have to enlighten you, your predilection to stereotype has failed you. Firstly, Shropshire is not in Wales and second not all people called Evans are Welsh though I would be happy to be such, sadly I am not.


I know that some have escaped, in years gone by, over the border near Oswestry. They crossed the A5. Perhaps one is a distant ancestor of yours? Any Evans from Shropshire is as near as Welsh as makes no odds.

Rod Evans wrote:
As far as magic mushrooms are concerned the next one I consume will be the first


Hurry - you have missed out on one of the best (and legal) delicacies of the Berwyn Hills.

Rod Evans wrote:
On a slightly more serious note the "Europeans" are not out to enslave us that was already achieved in 1066. The real threat is from the good old US of A and I am speaking from personal experience.
RJ


Will America make an alliance with the Welsh to take over Shropshire once they have finished trashing Iraq? Your homeland will be reunited!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 21:36 
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I've got this lovely mental image of Basingwerk arriving at his car "yard" next time his heap expires, only to find that the only 4 door family saloon "old banger" available has a BMW badge on the front. Just think, he could fit all the social stereotypes in one go, in one fell swoop he could be:

Uncaring, irresponsible driver of unsafe old deathtrap,
Cap-wearing middle lane cruising numpty (see other thread),
BMW owning roadhog, whose headlights flash more than his indicators!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 22:04 
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JT wrote:
I've got this lovely mental image of Basingwerk arriving at his car "yard" next time his heap expires, only to find that the only 4 door family saloon "old banger" available has a BMW badge on the front. Just think, he could fit all the social stereotypes in one go, in one fell swoop he could be:

Uncaring, irresponsible driver of unsafe old deathtrap,
Cap-wearing middle lane cruising numpty (see other thread),
BMW owning roadhog, whose headlights flash more than his indicators!


Truth is stranger than fiction - I used to drive an Audi that had 450,000 km on the clock. Left hand drive, I paid a grand for it, it rusted out eventually, but it was a really good runner for 6 years, and I had to do no maintenace other than an oil change every couple of years and a new clutch - one of my really good buys. Did me proud on a lot of skiing trips. I quite like the vehicles in the mad max movies, and towards the end, my Audi had that look about it. Even after all that abuse, I still got $25 quid for it at the scrap yard because the engine was still fine! No, I don't knock 'em for transport purposes, but it had plenty of dents and scratches and rust, lest anyone think I was a tutonic road dominator!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:17 
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basingwerk wrote:
You made it clear that the Audi/BMW/Merc brigade have a bad reputation. How did they get it in the first place if it is false?


I just provided one possible explanation elsewhere in the post you quoted, but I'll assume you either didn't read it or chose to ignore it since it doesn't fit in with your own image of the Audi/BMW/Merc brigade...

Another possible explanation is that in the past (thinking about the 80's when it seemed like every merchant banker/share dealing halfwit with more money than sense was dashing for their nearest prestige car dealership), the Audi/BMW/Merc brigade were mostly bad drivers, but whilst the standard of Audi/BMW/Merc driving has improved since then, the stereotype (just like so many others - flat caps and whippets, remember...) is still with us.

Whatever the reason for the stereotype/reputation, my experience out on the roads AT PRESENT suggests that, whilst there are still some of the old-school Audi/BMW/Merc drivers out there doing their best to keep the reputation going, there are at least as many trying to promote a more positive view of their behaviour. I can see how someone, who for whatever reason still wanted to believe all Audi/BMW/Merc drivers were reckless fools, could choose to tune out the examples of good driving from this group and just use the bad examples to reinforce their beliefs, but that doesn't mean their beliefs are correct.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 13:58 
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basingwerk wrote:
By the way, why is that drivers of German cars in Germany drive like all the other drivers in Germany, but drivers of German cars in England are likely to drive more stupidly and aggressively than other drivers? What can explain that?


Well I recall reading a piece by some psychologist chappie who tried to make some connection between the types of cars people owned, the type of person they were, and the way they drove their cars.
He suggested that the aggresive 'BMW' (etc) driver image stems from the fact that many of these cars are company vehicles driven by ambitious, thrusting businessmen/women. Their behaviour on the road reflects their attitude to life i.e. got to get to the top as fast as possible, don't care whose gonads I step on to do so. A person driving in front of them is a metaphor for a work colleague getting in the way of their ambitions and they must be removed (overtaken).
Sounds interseting, but maybe it's more to do with the fact that we can't resist stereotyping.

BTW, did you have a nice weekend?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 23:00 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
basingwerk wrote:
Gizmo wrote:
Maybe because they still have unlimited speed on most major motorways.


Yes, and they have twice as much carnage in Germany as here http://www.abd.org.uk/safest_roads.htm.


You won't get anywhere with that argument. See:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/international3.html

There are good reasons for the Autobahns to be dangerous - they are OLD! Yet the motorways in Austria and Belgium are TWICE as dangerous as the Autobahns.



True - they are old - lot are two laners

Burps mate - you've driven on 'em - so you know as well as I do that the slip roads are tight, that old East Germans appear to be root of problem these days as well. They placed limits on the high volume ones - such as A6 - and main arterial A9 has variable limit - and crunches appear in the 130 kph bits....

Austria - Switzerland .... them thar hills .... :twisted: Also Austria has lot of Czech/Slovak and manic Italians..... running through....

Belgium? Against my better judgement - drove through Belgium on way home from hols in summer..................Wildy was on a chocolate mission...(bought Swiss chocs as prezzies for pals - she scoffed them and then she scoffed the replacements purchased from choccy factory before we got back to Blighty ...... :roll: )

But anyway .... Belgium really must do something about resurfacing those autoroutes - because they were worst I have ever driven on anywhere .... worn surfaces, huge pot holes in all lanes....

In addition to that ... not exactly the best drivers in EU either.... :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 23:13 
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basingwerk wrote:


Now I travel using a new concept - bangernomics. Its better for the environment, helps the local economy (my local back street mechanic) instead of a fat corporation, there are no more repair bills for scratches and dents.


Nah - mate - that's an excuse! That's just your way of explaining all the new dents and scratches from your umpteen attempts to parallel park....and the little low speed shunts....


burps wrote:
No computers in my cars


:? :? :? :? :?

Thought you would have at least placed your black box in there - mate :wink:

burps wrote:
With luck, I may be able to afford a private education for my kids with the many thousands I have saved over the years. Or maybe not, who knows?


Those fees ......... and the the university ones ...... I am looking at ruin.... :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 23:35 
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Rigpig wrote:
basingwerk wrote:
By the way, why is that drivers of German cars in Germany drive like all the other drivers in Germany, but drivers of German cars in England are likely to drive more stupidly and aggressively than other drivers? What can explain that?


Well I recall reading a piece by some psychologist chappie who tried to make some connection between the types of cars people owned, the type of person they were, and the way they drove their cars.
He suggested that the aggresive 'BMW' (etc) driver image stems from the fact that many of these cars are company vehicles driven by ambitious, thrusting businessmen/women. Their behaviour on the road reflects their attitude to life i.e. got to get to the top as fast as possible, don't care whose gonads I step on to do so. A person driving in front of them is a metaphor for a work colleague getting in the way of their ambitions and they must be removed (overtaken).
Sounds interseting, but maybe it's more to do with the fact that we can't resist stereotyping.

BTW, did you have a nice weekend?



I think you are right ...about sterotypes. Would not exactly describe my wife as conforming to the precisely law abiding Swiss stereotype....

And everyone seems to be in a hurry these days as well.... think technology has brought about expectation of "immediacy"

I drive Jag - nice steady car .

Once read yet another article about choice of car colours .....


Green - conservative steady type..... (um - Stag and Jag are British Racing Green :lol: :lol: )

Racing - yup! 8-)


White - cautious type (White Van Drivers :? :? :? )

Red - racy individuals ..... hmmm...... fair enough ......

Black - cool types ...... (My Moggie is black - yup - agree - far out man!)

... (am Mad Moggie cos of the Moggie Thousand .... have two . Also have a first edition Stag....)

Yellow - sunny types .....(would not describe so - yellow has certain sterotype with money making ....... so that's why they painted 'e yellow!)

Pastel colours - closet hippies .... (well that accounts for the pink lighting from that night camera our organ grinder's monkey is on about....)

Silver - people with discerning qualities (Arrgh! The chap drives a silver Merc or BMW...)

Blue - calm sort - errrrrr...... Wildy's Jag is blue.....and our VW people carrier (well - have to have large car to transport the kids around....is also blue....)


Nope .... think the guy has summat wrong here....

Oi - burps - what colour is your old heap? :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:09 
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basingwerk wrote:
Now I travel using a new concept - bangernomics. Its better for the environment, helps the local economy (my local back street mechanic) instead of a fat corporation, there are no more repair bills for scratches and dents. No computers in my cars, so less goes wrong. No more car washing, waxing or other time wasting activities. No more servicing, apart from the odd oil change and new tyres.

Think you should change your nic to "basingwreck" mate. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 13:40 
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Oi, back on topic! ;)

I hope you have all voiced your opinions on the A14 and how the plethora of scammers and their evil tools have made the road more dangerous.

We need to be campaigning for a HIGHER speed on this road to improve it's safety! Get mailing instead of answering the troll :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 18:21 
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TonyOut wrote:
Oi, back on topic! ;)

I hope you have all voiced your opinions on the A14 and how the plethora of scammers and their evil tools have made the road more dangerous.

We need to be campaigning for a HIGHER speed on this road to improve it's safety! Get mailing instead of answering the troll :lol:


Last time I drove on this road back in March in Cambs to a relative's anniversary bash .... it was NSL...... and it is dual carriageway ...... cannot remember seeing anything to tell me it had lower speed limit and not one member of this family received a NIP and we all drove along it ....

Agree we need an NSL to bring into line with rest of EU - I like Italy's idea myself ... 93 mph and margin up to 10% + 2....... :wink:


Will agree that we- as entire family driving to another member's bash - noticed a severe case of bunching at the Truvelos in Cambs section. One each way in Northants as we came off M1 as I remember... and on reaching the Cambs stretch - think there were five in rapid succession and people were driving legally and then braking to about 55-60 mph as soon as they spotted the Truvelo warnings or Truvelo itself :roll: Led to bunching and jams.....

Have already written to Cambs asking for clarification of their alleged spate of accidents on 20 March 2000-2003 - which was the site's justification for additional mobile traps. Can honestly say that not one guest to relative's has ever been held up by an accident or even seen any signs of accidents or collisions en route to the anniversary bash - nor were any of the medicos at the party called away to deal with emergencies of that magnitude. I believe some other members of this family have also voiced concerns.

Would say from my own professional view of this road that gives every appearance of suffering from micro-climates and ground mist - and in that case 70mph would be too fast for the conditions. Again - driver training and traffic cops would go a long way towards promoting healthy and responsible driving here. Is that what you are campaigning for here - Tony-O?

Does it need forest of Truvelos and additional talivan traps ..... :? :? No... would not say so. It could benefit more from nice healthy dose of police patrol cars to hit the really dangerous types I have observed there though.....

For record - we use mobile speed traps - targetting some 15-20 roads which have history of collisions and speeding - which contributed to the outcome. I will not say speed actually causes an accident - it is a part of the human error - misjudgement of situation, lack of concentration, observation, anticipation, space (tailgating), time (not allowing sufficient time for journey - getting frustrated).

My patch is comitted to education as well as enforcement of the rules... and we are starting to see some results.....as is North Yorks....

But then Tony-O - you know from previous press releases - such as George's post .... my patch cannot afford a slip up - we'd get lynched. So kid yourself not that Durham is soft.... we are far from it! :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 14:12 
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I don't think Durham is soft... But I do think Durham is sensible.

The A14 is NSL, but the problem is the high density of scameras. Not only is it festooned with fixed cameras, but the tax vans are everywhere. What do drivers have to do... Eyes off the road to check the speedo... and look at footbridges and all manner of hiding places. With high density traffic, this is a recipe for an accident. All it takes is something to momentarily slow the lead car and somewhere in the bunch the inevitable happens.

One factor that often isn't mentioned is that mobile plod force you into good driving practices... Why? Because you have to look out for the sneaky devils amongst you.

Engage warp drive... Is there a police car tailing me at a distance? What's that white car ahead. All things that force the driver to concentrate on his surrounding vehicles. Coincidentally, it's one of the first rules of safe driving.

I'm all in favour of police patrols on the roads. I'm 100% against scameras.

We need to aim to get the traffic UP to the NSL, not put everyone into automaton mode wandering along aimlessly at an arbitary speed.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 21:51 
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The A14 (use it most days from A1 to M11) does get a lot of poor weather conditions. This time of year, it is a nightmare in the morning on a clear day, with the sun right in your face when heading east. It gets a lot of fog also. These conditions coupled with the sheer weight of traffic are the issue.

There is no way that anyone can speed on this stretch from 7.30 till 9.30 in the morning. The traffic moves slowly, and the slip roads, on and off, are very short. This is where the accidents happen, and indeed is where the speed camera's are sited, but Speed is not the issue here, it is people driving too close in poor visibility.

When heading west on the same section at 8pm, the road flows freely at 70, again, the traffic not allowing anthing faster, but with bunching near the camera sites as people slow down to 60 just in case. The only times the static camera's wll get anyone is when the road is quiet, and quite safe.

I cant remember the last time I saw a patrol car, although the mobiles are often present on the Stukely section (This part of the road is fairly quiet as it is before the bulk of the traffic from the midlands joins, which probably explains this site as the choice for a mobile....ch ching)

This eastern section of the a14 should never have been 2 lanes. Since the west section was opened several years ago, the road carries all freight to the ports from the m6, m1, and A1. It was busy before it was linked up!

So in short, the road is V busy, crowded with HGV's, poorly engineered, suffers from poor visibility, and the solution for this is fixed and mobile "safety" cameras.......amazing!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 17:10 
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Well, this is my first post on these Forums and I started to read this thread because I live close to the A14 in Cambs and I'm a lorry driver who travels it frequently.
I didn't expect to end up reading the pro's and cons of BMW v Audi v Merc.

Surely it's the mentality of the driver, not the vehicle he/she's driving, that determines the safety of other road users??

The A14 is simply overcrowded and was too small (2 lanes) before it was even opened.
The ability to reach the legal speed limit is determined by the slowest vehicle in each of the two lanes, causing frustration and the need to 'make up for lost time' at every opportunity.

The two accident blackspots, Kettering and Huntingdon, confirm this problem.

If car drivers we're taught how to join a moving flow of traffic it would help and in addition to this, to ask them to bear in mind that they should 'Give Way' and not believe it is their God given right to have everything move over for them, a lot of the problems would be solved.

All to often cars expect lorries to move over for them not realising that we probably have at least 3 cars on our off side that they can't see.

Another problem is the 'slow' moving vehicles who cause accidents because some people have an inability to guage the speed of the vehicle ahead until it's too late, and then have to take avoiding action at the last minute.

The A14 is a good road, designed badly, and grossly overused for the size of it.

Pat

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 17:14 
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Pat wrote:
The A14 is a good road, designed badly, and grossly overused for the size of it.

It needs to be made into a full three-lane motorway from end to end, with four lanes between Cambridge and the A1.

Unfortunately political correctness and Gordon Brown's parsimony will prevent this from happening.

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