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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:24 
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Barkstar wrote:
willcove wrote:
With our roads now busier than ever, surely it's time to call a halt on these events?
Edited to add - that is, events that have a goal in conflict with safety


Without being too rude you can park that idea!

I rally, as a navigator, and we obviously have to use the queen's highway to get between tests on private land. And there is a time schedule we have to keep to between those tests. But not only are we limited to the use of any given route (six weeks apart minimum), rallys have a strict set of rules for the organisers, including individual PR on the route if it is deemed necessary - ie homes on smaller country roads and the co-operation of the local police. And with the exception of motorways the time given to get from Test A to Test B is timed at an average of 30mph (M-ways are 40mph) regardless of the route, and if we have to pass through towns/citys the timing is even more relaxed - all specifically to avoid unsafe driving but still keeping the rally in a managable group...

Whoa there a minute. You've just said that rallies are run to allow sufficient time for competitors to get between stages in safety. IIRC, the order in which you arrive at the next stage is irrelevant - it's only how you do on the special stages (on private roads of closed public ones) that affects your placing. The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 forbids any form of racing or speed trials that involve motor vehicles without permission from the Secretary of State. The organisers work with the police with safety and consideration for the general public very much to the fore. Where's the conflict with safety? AFAICT, there is none (at least, not on open public roads). Unlike cycle time-trials, rallying is one sport that's got it right.

What I'm trying to say - but perhaps not very well - is that all forms of non-motorised competition should be brought up to the standard of rallying!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 13:53 
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Why should people be allowed to do anything that causes danger, if they don't need to? You don't need to go running, it is safer to walk. In fact that walk in the park is quite dangerous, you might twist your ankle or get mugged, better stay in the house. Don't put the telly on though, you might get eye strain. But you must have the radio on a tuned to the government approved safety channel so you can keep up to date on the current hazard assessments to keep you safe. Keep your heating off though. I've decided it's an unnecessary luxury and therefore none of you are allowed to use it either. It's for your own good, one day you'll thank me for it. Well actually you probably won't, but I'll still have that nice warm smug feeling of knowing that my interference is for your own good even if you all think otherwise.

Thanks for reading,
The Nanny State.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 16:15 
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greenv8s wrote:
Why should people be allowed to do anything that causes danger, if they don't need to? You don't need to go running, it is safer to walk. In fact that walk in the park is quite dangerous, you might twist your ankle or get mugged, better stay in the house. Don't put the telly on though, you might get eye strain. But you must have the radio on a tuned to the government approved safety channel so you can keep up to date on the current hazard assessments to keep you safe. Keep your heating off though. I've decided it's an unnecessary luxury and therefore none of you are allowed to use it either. It's for your own good, one day you'll thank me for it. Well actually you probably won't, but I'll still have that nice warm smug feeling of knowing that my interference is for your own good even if you all think otherwise.

Thanks for reading,
The Nanny State.


And by the way we'll be round to install the cctv to check. If you're out when we get there don't worry, we have master keys so we'll let ourselves in and have a look round while we're there. This is expensive of course so we'll be sending the bill along with the FPN and correction report. If we find any chocolate then we'll confiscate it of course. You know you're only allowed one square on a sunday.

We'll match the contents of the fridge with your bin collection day. Remember it's vegetables only except for the day before bin collection, when you may have a roast.

Now if by chance you have gone out, remember to walk, keeping to the marked area on the pavement. DO NOT under any circumstances wander into the marked area for pedestrian flow in the opposite direction. If you do this accidently please don't worry, the pavement controller will warn you from the nearest public order address system. You will be able to pay your fine at the nearest FPN ATM on the lampost.

Those who have gone to the pub, please remember that one half of shandy is the legal maximum. You will also have to enter via the nicotine detector and may be required to provide a DNA sample should the detector indicate that you have been near a cigarette in the last 43 years. You will of course then be banned from all public places. When you exit the pub you will pass through the motion analyser, which will check if there is any unsteadiness and automatically issue the FPN.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 23:42 
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...and don't forget the most important one:

"IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, YOU'LL HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR"!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 23:49 
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Mole wrote:
...and don't forget the most important one:

"IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, YOU'LL HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR"!


£60 FPN for shouting, contrary to the "Discrimination against the hearing impaired"

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 05:31 
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Graeme wrote:
£60 FPN for shouting, contrary to the "Discrimination against the hearing impaired"

Reduced to £30 if you pay up straight away. Don't hesitate, just pay up. If you DARE exercise your legal right to fight it in court then it's £60 + more if you lose.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 18:29 
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I used to do navigational road rallies like Barkstar (when I was a squaddie, a navigator too) and although individual drivers were held responsible for their actions the organisers would get it too if the event wasn't organised properly.

I don't cycle but I wouldn't want to stop them using the roads for events. I've used the roads for enjoyment so why shouldn't they. All that is really needed is a proper set of rules and proper disciplinary measures if the organisational control gets it wrong.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 21:45 
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:gatso2: :veryhappy: Well said, Barkstar. As a rally fanatic (who hates football) I would not be a happy bunny if rallying was banned by order from the Health & Safety Nazis. I'm off to the Isle of Man this year for the third time to watch the Rally Isle of Man. Life is full of risks that must be taken, otherwise you might as well crawl under your bed and die.

:legorally: CAUTION-DON'T CUT!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 22:05 
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Saw this on Graem's post -

"£60 FPN for shouting, contrary to the "Discrimination against the hearing impaired"

EH - WAT - MY LUGS ARE FULL OF WAX :roll:(Said with a mid glasgo acent)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 22:20 
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CJG wrote:
I would not be a happy bunny if rallying was banned by order from the Health & Safety Nazis.

Who, apart from Barkstar, said anything about banning rallying? Rallying is a shining example of how it should be done. I'm the OP, and I just want to see non-motorised sport that uses open public roads brought under the same sort of control and up to the same standard as rallying.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 22:44 
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willcove wrote:
CJG wrote:
I would not be a happy bunny if rallying was banned by order from the Health & Safety Nazis.

Who, apart from Barkstar, said anything about banning rallying? Rallying is a shining example of how it should be done. I'm the OP, and I just want to see non-motorised sport that uses open public roads brought under the same sort of control and up to the same standard as rallying.


so far.... i only see you mean cycle time trials by 'non-motorised sport' ?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 22:48 
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:gatso2: It wouldn't surprise me if there was a call to ban rallying at sometime in the not to distant future. Over the past few months there have been some ridiculous ideas from Health & Saftey Nazis, tree huggers, the Government etc. I've often read letters on Ceefax calling for unnneccesary resource-wasting competitive motorsport to be banned to stop global warming. :hissyfit:

I wouldn't have any objection to safety measures for non-motorised sport. If The IOM can put up with closed roads and a small army of safety marshalls, then everybody could learn from that.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 02:28 
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willcove wrote:
Who, apart from Barkstar, said anything about banning rallying?


I think you did. :roll:

willcove wrote:
I'm talking here about any competition that has an objective that can conflict with road safety, i.e. has some factor that can encourage unsafe behaviour. This should apply to all competitions, not just motorsport (as seems to be the status quo)....... With our roads now busier than ever, surely it's time to call a halt on these events?


Though you have since made yourself clear.

Barkstar

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 09:20 
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Barkstar wrote:
willcove wrote:
Who, apart from Barkstar, said anything about banning rallying?


I think you did. :roll:

willcove wrote:
I'm talking here about any competition that has an objective that can conflict with road safety, i.e. has some factor that can encourage unsafe behaviour. This should apply to all competitions, not just motorsport (as seems to be the status quo)....... With our roads now busier than ever, surely it's time to call a halt on these events?


Though you have since made yourself clear.

Barkstar

As I wrote up-thread - there isn't a conflict with safety in rallying (at least, not on open public roads). Competitors are given more than enough time to travel between special stages. The organisers seem to go out of their way to ensure that public isn't put in danger. AFAICT they have to because all motorsport is banned on public roads unless specifically authorised by the Secretary of State (which in practice I suspect means authorised by some responsible body to which that power is delegated) and if they didn't ensure safety they wouldn't get the authorisation. I want to bring non-motorised sport into line with this.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 09:47 
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ed_m wrote:
so far.... i only see you mean cycle time trials by 'non-motorised sport' ?

Time triallers are (IME) the worst offenders and so I've given time trialling as an example, but my call is by no means restricted to time trials.

I saw two prime examples (one of how not to do it and one of how it should be done) in Plymouth during the last couple of weeks - both were running events.

In the first, there was no overt marshalling and over a dozen runners ran through a red light forcing priority traffic on green to stop (with the accompanying sqeal of brakes).

The second was the an officially marshalled 10 mile race around the Hoe and Barbican. There was a marshal at every junction directing traffic assisted by the police as necessary. Motorised traffic was inconvenienced, but safety wasn't put at risk as hundreds of competitors ran the course. If only all events were organised the same way!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:10 
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Willcove, you're right. Competitive time-trialling, where people are riding at vmax with their only thought being whether or not they can shave .1s off their record time, on unmarshalled, busy public roads is complete madness.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:18 
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CJG wrote:
:gatso2: It wouldn't surprise me if there was a call to ban rallying at sometime in the not to distant future. Over the past few months there have been some ridiculous ideas from Health & Saftey Nazis, tree huggers, the Government etc. I've often read letters on Ceefax calling for unnneccesary resource-wasting competitive motorsport to be banned to stop global warming. :hissyfit:

I wouldn't have any objection to safety measures for non-motorised sport. If The IOM can put up with closed roads and a small army of safety marshalls, then everybody could learn from that.


Don't worry. The Motor Sports Association (MSA) apparently fearful of litigious threats to its private funds is doing all it can to emasculate Stage Rallying in the UK at the moment.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:25 
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johnsher wrote:
Willcove, you're right. Competitive time-trialling, where people are riding at vmax with their only thought being whether or not they can shave .1s off their record time, on unmarshalled, busy public roads is complete madness.


I was driving near Wrexham on the A550 Saturday when a pack of maybe 50 bikes occupying one and a half lanes of the SC came sweeping around a bend. Fortunately the traffic in my lane had stopped and pulled half onto the grass verge. I cycle for exercise myself but could see the bikers were trying hard. I can see there is a valid argument for road closures for these events for the safety of competitors and least inconvenience of other roadusers.

At the same time there is a good case for closed road rallying as the Jim Clark too.

Just needs government will and streamlining of process and a give and take attitude on the part of those other roadusers & residents affected.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 19:33 
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Richard C wrote:
I was driving near Wrexham on the A550 Saturday when a pack of maybe 50 bikes occupying one and a half lanes of the SC came sweeping around a bend. Fortunately the traffic in my lane had stopped and pulled half onto the grass verge. I cycle for exercise myself but could see the bikers were trying hard. I can see there is a valid argument for road closures for these events for the safety of competitors and least inconvenience of other roadusers.


was this a race ?


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