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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:32 
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andys280176 wrote:
This also brings up an interesting subject of the middle age driver resting on their laurels thinking they are the perfect motorist and therefore becoming incompetent, is this worse than the young driver, who is,-

(1) Alert

(2) Still remembers highway code

(3) Usually in less powerful and smaller car

(4) Usually does less miles

-against the older driver who is usually the complete opposite of above?

But all the accident stats and insurance figures show that middle-aged drivers in the 40-60 age range have least accidents, so while some of the above may apply, it doesn't filter through into the results of their driving.

As others have said, there's no substitute for experience. Once you're past 40 and have got lots of miles under your belt you realise when it really isn't worth taking risks for a marginal advantage.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:38 
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Quote:
andys280176 wrote:

This also brings up an interesting subject of the middle age driver resting on their laurels thinking they are the perfect motorist and therefore becoming incompetent, is this worse than the young driver, who is,-

(1) Alert

(2) Still remembers highway code

(3) Usually in less powerful and smaller car

(4) Usually does less miles

-against the older driver who is usually the complete opposite of above?


Fair question generally but not sure whether your 1-4 are entirely relevant.


True they aren't entirely relevant but I think there is still a case to be made against the overconfidence brought on by incompetence of 'knowing it all'. With younger drivers overall it always comes down to lack of experience whether they lost control or whatever but at least their alertness and newness to the whole situation is still there, which can sometimes counteract the lack of experience. So really younger drivers lack of experience gets then into trouble and older drivers wealth of experience gets them out of trouble, conversely the younger driver avoids trouble with alertness and still having the instructors flea in his ear but the older driver comes into trouble through overconfidence.


Andrew

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 19:49 
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andys280176 wrote:
So really younger drivers lack of experience gets then into trouble and older drivers wealth of experience gets them out of trouble, conversely the younger driver avoids trouble with alertness and still having the instructors flea in his ear but the older driver comes into trouble through overconfidence.


I would question whether it is possible to generalise about the characteristics of any sub-group of drivers on the basis of age. Experience is not a characteristic, it's a fact. In most cases, it counts for something, but there will be exceptions. Some people, unfortunately, repeat their mistakes.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 22:28 
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I believe that with age comes hazard perception more so than better car control. As we spend more time on the road and witness more and more stupidity we start to see signs BEFORE we see the stupidity.

How often have you thought to yourself, that guy is going to change lanes, just before the indicator comes on, or the car suddenly moves into your lane? How about catching a movement off to the side on a residential street and automatically slowing down just as a ball appears on the road ahead, followed closely by a young child? The number of times I have avoided an accident because I took preventative action BEFORE the actions of the other driver/pedestrian is just too big a number to count.

Yes, young drivers are more likely to be focused on their driving, but until they know what to look for it doesn't help them avoid the stupidity of others.

With age and experience comes the recognition of hazards and it is very hard to teach that sort of knowledge.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 06:58 
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IanH wrote:
Education and continued training must be the way forward.
Education not only in driving techniques, but also in courtesy, consideration and concentration.
Bt it MUST be relevant to them.
I like to think (every trafpol does), that their roadside education is appropriate and relevant. I like to in some way 'disarm' the young driver by making him realise that I really care about his and other's safety, rather than simply treading the tired line of 'it's the law'. However, I am 30 years their senior, and my message may not possess the 'coolness' it would have if given by one of their respected peers.

This is where advertising based road safety awareness would be able to play a major part.


Excellent post Ian.

One thing you've mentioned that isn't well enough known or widely enough stated is the overlap between education and information. We learn through all sorts of subtle "information influences" as well as when we think we're being educated.

The advertising based thing you mentioned falls into this category - it's "educational information" - and as such I believe it's probably even more important than traditional education.

For example: if someone had told me I shouldn't have to do an emergency stop every week I would have recognised my limitations and learned faster. There are a few critical key items of information that just aren't available to new drivers. I'm working on it and hope to make a concrete proposal soon. In the meantime see this thread:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=991

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 14:22 
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Perhaps a challenge could be issued to every advertising agency in the land:

"Prove you are the best. Come up with a campaign that gets young drivers to realise their mortality and behave accordingly"

Where I work there is an entire population of young men and women with money to buy cars (usually small Renaults or Peugots) and an inflated sense of driving competence. Put those two together and what do you get...overtaking on single file lanes, cars in walls and ditches, running of red lights in fact you name it I've almost certainly seen one of our young folk doing it!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 17:12 
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Rigpig wrote:
Perhaps a challenge could be issued to every advertising agency in the land:

"Prove you are the best. Come up with a campaign that gets young drivers to realise their mortality and behave accordingly"


That might well be a really good idea. I wonder how it could possibly be moved forward? Should we try to get insurance companies to put up a prize? Any other ideas?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 19:14 
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Rigpig wrote:
Perhaps a challenge could be issued to every advertising agency in the land:

"Prove you are the best. Come up with a campaign that gets young drivers to realise their mortality and behave accordingly"

But it is quite a challenge - because it would be all too easy to come up with something that was interpreted as "safe driving is for wusses".

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Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 13:37 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
I've been mulling this over and trying to narrow things down.

I think there are three key issues that we must try and address.

1) I think it's always going to be "manly" to take risks. But if we could do anything to make taking road risks stupid instead of manly, then that would be a move in the right direction and would neutralise some of the peer pressure problems.


Mentioned this before - remember an advert from my early childhood about the dangers of playing near railway lines. It showed a lad playing and getting too close to the track. A train hurtled past and you were left in no doubt as to what happened to him. The voice over at the end was so sarcastic that you were left in no doubt that the child died as a result of his own stupidity. Even at age 6 - it got the message across that you would be regarded as stupid for ever more if you died that way. A lot of clever adverts could be made in such a way as to ensure recognition of plain stupidity as drivers, bikers, cyclists and pedestrians.

Cleverly made adverts could show the near misses as well - and must reflect the sheer fear at facing possible death - with person spelling out his mistake which nearly cost him his life - and vowing never to do it again! These could range from bad overtake scene, misjudging speed at a right hand turn, SMIDSY, sudden lane change, tailgating, lane hogging, misuse of fog lights, non-clearing of windows, poor maintenance of tyres, wiper blades etc, etc.....

Perhaps given the fascination with football - we should point out that footballing skills, even with natural talent, have to be subject to constant training to perfect and keep those skills fluent at all times. (Admittedly not helped by certain footballers - but we can get over this by showing that these are as naff on the pitch as beheind the wheel! :wink:)

safespeed wrote:
Road safety lessons in schools I reckon. Before they get their licences they should already know that they will be responsible when they get into emergencies. We could also warn them what to expect - to expect that they'll make mistakes and get into trouble on the road.


Well... two members of this family are teachers - my own sister and another of Wildy's cousins These two women include Road Safety as part of their PSE programme. Apparently - they reinforce the Green Cross Code constantly, include a compulsory Cycling Proficiency for all Year 7s, and have introduced hazard perception DVDs for the 14-18 age group to prepare them for driving in later life. They tell us this also reinforces the children's hazard perception as pedestrians as well. These women, however, are dedicated petrolheads and advanced drivers themselves :lol:

Have already posted how we taught my eldest to drive: he does have the advantage of being in a family of petrolheaded nerds :roll: He also knows how badly his mother was injured by that freak accident when he was a toddler. He gained a lot of experience on long drives, inclduing twilight and night drives along A roads from North of Keswick to Blackpool, and I introduced him to motorways about a fortnight after he passed his driving test. He has completed his Pass Plus and is now building up his general experience before IAM etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 15:27 
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Publicity campaigns have certainly succeeded in eliminating any stigma of it being seen as "unmanly" to refuse to drink alcohol when driving - although the men concerned will often then needlessly drink pints of Coke or orange squash so they are matching the drinkers on volume.

Indeed "I'll just have a half" (whether or not driving) is perceived as less manly than ordering a pint of orange squash.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed


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