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 Post subject: Roundabout confusion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 17:52 
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Can't do the insert image trickery so I'll have to describe this.

Standard roundabout in front of you.
3 exits - left, straight-on & right.
3 lanes on approach to roundabout.
No markings on lanes, no signs relating to lanes.
Busy shopping complex on left so logic says that the left hand lane is for turning left to take traffic pressure off the roundabout.
The roundabout is too narrow for three cars to safely negotiate it. But people are using the left hand lane to go straight over.
If someone is in the middle lane and someone is also turning right at the same time then you suddenly become aware that 3 cars into 2 lanes won't go.

Seems strange that the council haven't painted arrows to show which lane you should be in. Can be pretty hairy negotiating these roundabouts.

Does anyone else encounter this system? Am I right in assuming that the left lane is to turn left in this case? Do people agree that there should be road markings and related signs to make people aware of how they should approach these roundabouts?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 18:33 
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Yeah, I can picture exactly the kind of situation you are describing Sam.

In situations like these (no markings), there will invariably be differences of opinion on which lane to adopt. I can even recall during a driving lesson (a few years ago -ahem) my instructor and another instructor accompanying us on my lesson, got into an argument over which lane I should pick up at a roundabout in Aylesbury.

I now play it safe and try to ensure I don't wind up alongside someone through the roundabout and make it absolutely clear where I'm going. If someone with a different opinion tries it on, I defer to them, simple as that.


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 Post subject: Re: Roundabout confusion
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 20:49 
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Quote:
Am I right in assuming that the left lane is to turn left in this case?


Left Lane, Turns left or straight on

Outside Lane, straight on or turn Right


Quote:
Do people agree that there should be road markings and related signs to make people aware of how they should approach these roundabouts?


In order to drive a car, you needed to pass your driving test, which you would of trained for, it is all in the training :!:

So no, we do not need signs, as the approach lanes are left more open, to keep traffic flowing.

For instance, there are a number of cars turning left, you use the outer lane to go straight, which saves you having to wait.

The same can be said for any of the approach lanes.

The only paths you do not use:

Right lane to Turn Left

Left lane to Turn Right

As you are crossing the path of traffic also on approach with you.

A roundabout is very much common sense, which i must admit, is very much lacking in the general standard of driving.

I blame the driving instructors :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 22:17 
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bmwk12,

you obviously did not read the entire post. The roundabout has 3 lanes entering but only room for 2 cars. Without any form of lane marking who goes into what lane? 3 into 2 does not go!

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Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:38 
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M3RBMW wrote:
bmwk12,

you obviously did not read the entire post. The roundabout has 3 lanes entering but only room for 2 cars. Without any form of lane marking who goes into what lane? 3 into 2 does not go!


A diagram would have helped, sorry for the lack of IT know-how. The point is that this is a dual carriageway which suddenly splits into the 3 approach lanes in the last 50 yards, so drivers are presented with a choice of lanes quite late with no warning.

The problem you are faced with is this, you are wanting to go straight over and for argument's sake lets say you select the middle lane. You have a car either side of you. The roundabout is really only a standard two lane width. So surely here the left hand lane leading to the busy shopping centre is ideally for traffic turning left. It suddenly transpires that the car in the left hand lane is going straight over and is vying for the space that I am already occupying. I can't move over because there is a car alongside me in the right hand lane. As MR3BMW says, 3 into 2 does not go. But if some council fella got a pot of paint out and drew < ^ > on the respective lanes, the confusion would stop. Probably.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 18:24 
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Which of the initial lanes splits into 2?

In the situation described i would suggest that it should be the left hand lane, to allow the traffic for the shops to turn left while still allowing 2 lanes for straight ahead and turning right.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 22:10 
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Exactly, but people in the left lane are using it as en entry to the roundabout, instead of turning left thus causing problems. If the council marked the road, indicating that the left lane was ONLY for turning left the problem would occur far less often, which is EXACTLY the point Sam is trying to make!

Road markings are obviously needed on the roundabout.

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Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 22:13 
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The title just sums it all up here

"ROUNDABOUT CONFUSION"

Hahahahahahha


I think I wizzed round you this morning...

"Derrrrr its another one of those new fangled roundabouts gladis" "what shall I do?"


Simple old geaser, put your foot down, close your eyes and hope for the best. It works for everyone else.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 22:35 
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speed kills wrote:
Simple old geaser, put your foot down, close your eyes and hope for the best. It works for everyone else.


Rubbish.

One more post like that and I will ban you for trolling.

Why not just enter into the spirit of intelligent debate?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 23:49 
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What a complete fud that guy really is!!

Andrew

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 00:09 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
intelligent debate?

I think this is beyond Speed Kills comprehension.

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Last edited by Gizmo on Wed Dec 15, 2004 00:20, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 13:47 
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Quote:
you obviously did not read the entire post


So sorry :!:

Lane 1

Left or straight

Lane 2

straight or right, dependant on exit lanes, 2 lane or single lane.

Lane 3, Right turn only.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 13:49 
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Quote:
Simple old geaser, put your foot down, close your eyes and hope for the best. It works for everyone else.


Stupidity kills.

Based on your post, ur about as stupid as they come.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 16:09 
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I did the nerdy anorak thing and emailed the local council on these roundabouts. It would appear that the original design was flawed as highways officers were aware of the problem and they've already secured funding to change the 3 lane approach to 2 lanes next year.

I also think people should stop being so hard on speed kills. We should all be congratulating him for learning how to use a computer. Its a significant step forward from scrawling on walls with a crayon...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 16:17 
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A new road has just opened by us, pleanty of traffic slowing roundabouts and waaaaaay to many trafficlights and to top it off 50mph 40mph 30mph speed limits through a standard duel carrigeway (the previous single carrige way was NSL), anywho to add to the brillant planning they have decided to add 3 lanes to the 2 lane roundabouts with no marking on the roundabout, already I`m having to think for other people as they go hurting into my path, jeeze it makes you wonder if planners actually plan these days.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 16:41 
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ThRu5h wrote:
...anywho to add to the brillant planning they have decided to add 3 lanes to the 2 lane roundabouts with no marking on the roundabout, already I`m having to think for other people as they go hurting into my path, jeeze it makes you wonder if planners actually plan these days.


It is worrying that this is happening elsewhere as well. A quick google showed that there is clear guidance for roundabout design and many ways to make roundabouts safe and clear for all. If this is your daily commute and you're counting the days before someone drives into you, try quoting this to your council.

http://www.official-documents.co.uk/document/deps/ha/dmrb/vol6/section2/ta7897.pdf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 02:01 
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Sam Dentten wrote:
ThRu5h wrote:
...anywho to add to the brillant planning they have decided to add 3 lanes to the 2 lane roundabouts with no marking on the roundabout, already I`m having to think for other people as they go hurting into my path, jeeze it makes you wonder if planners actually plan these days.


It is worrying that this is happening elsewhere as well. A quick google showed that there is clear guidance for roundabout design and many ways to make roundabouts safe and clear for all. If this is your daily commute and you're counting the days before someone drives into you, try quoting this to your council.

http://www.official-documents.co.uk/document/deps/ha/dmrb/vol6/section2/ta7897.pdf


The Design Manual for Roads and Bridges Volume 6 (TD16) says that the width of the circulatory carriageway should be between 1 and 1.2 times the width of the widest entry. This is a mandatory requirement on trunk roads. In a nutshell, if you have a three lane approach road, the circulatory carriageway should be just over three lanes wide.

In practice, although I might steer a course through such a roundabout in one of the three lanes dependent on where I am going, I try to avoid being alongside another vehicle, and certainly wouldn't want to be the meet in the sandwich (or even the slice of bread) as one of three abreast.

Simon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 02:22 
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Flatm8 is writing a peice of software to demonstrate the effects that items such as this have as part of his disertation. If a Bsc student can do it then surly the council should have something more comprehensive they can use to try out these designs and realise how flawed they may be. Maybe i should suggest he work on it more and flog it to them. Can hardly make a worse cock up than many cases you see.


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