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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 16:26 
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We are always being bombarded with commercials and programs for fancy cars and how well they accelerate and handle etc. Well I have often mused over the idea of making a short program showing how to use these things responsibly from an onboard camera in my car complete with narration giving details of a typical journey. Trouble is, I would be incriminating myself because I would want it to show not only the view from my windscreen but also my speedometer.

I would like something like it to be aired on TV as an example of excellence in driving at an advanced level. How to survive the road jungle and not hurt anyone. We've all seen these police chase thingies where you're in the drivers seat; well a bit like that but without the chase.

Everything should be included but edited to include city and rural driving; good weather and bad etc. The commentary should highlight what you are looking for and why. It should be honest and include situations where, at times, it is safe to go over the speed limit on a clear stretch of road under the right circumstances but considerably less than the limit in other circumstances.

Everything from a quick blast up to 80/90+ on a clear open stretch of motorway or dual carriageway with no junctions, to places where a near stop is appropriate on a busy road with parked cars and children! In other words, good safe driving.

In short, a no holds barred truthful account of how to drive safely by someone with a long impeccable or distinguished record of driving or riding motorbikes to serve as an good example to us all.

Ever been done before? Anyone from the BBC taking note? Any retired traffic police willing to throw his/her hat in the ring?

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 16:38 
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In another place we talked long and hard about making such a film. We also wanted to overlay braking distance graphics to illustrate the safe speed principle.

I think we eventually made it hard because we planned roof-mounted cameras and overlaid graphics - the whole thing was getting complex and expensive. The interested folk drifted away and it never happened.

However I got some way towards finding distribution as a cover DVD on a motoring mag. I think this was 2004.

With funding, of course it can happen easily. Without funding, and given the production values that consumers expect, it's hard.

Speeding prosecutions are only startable within the 14 day NIP window, so even if a speeding prosucution was supported by sufficiently accurate instruments no prosecution for speeding could take place so long as there was more than 14 days between recording and release. Prosecutions for some other motoring offences don't have the same restriction (Dangerous Driving for example), but obviously we wouldn't want to be involved or associated with any such stupidity.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 16:50 
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Surley a NIP 14 day window would not exclude other material evidence that proves who the driver was in the 6 month window to lay charges.

The reason they cannot identify the driver from speed camera video footage is that a person in a car or a house cannot be filmed without express permissions under the criminal proceedures and investigations act.

Can a truck driver be proven to have driven from his tacho and gps?

If you were to film yourself that could be used against you.

If they film your car that is ok, if they attempt to focus on the driver they may be overstepping thier powers.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 16:53 
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anton wrote:
Surley a NIP 14 day window would not exclude other material evidence that proves who the driver was in the 6 month window to lay charges.


The S172 procedure isn't time limited, but the NIP procedure certainly is.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 20:35 
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they prosicuted mark milton on the evidence from his in car equiptment. I presume they did not rely on sending him a section 172 notice. therefore the 6 month rule applies not tthe 14 day rule

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 02:38 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
given the production values that consumers expect, it's hard.


youtube can reach a surprisingly high audience and wouldn't require quite as slick production.

As for the legal side, I'm sure we can come up with a route which can demonstrate fast driving without exceeding any speed limits.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 08:47 
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Thanks, very interesting. I thought I may be lambasted for such a bizarre suggestion but my line of thought was simply that the people who drive safely will carry on doing so as ever while the maniac minority may, after seeing such a video, give consideration to exactly where and when they get their fix.

My thanks to Iccle re http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=20067&hl= Don't know if you saw it Paul but it just goes to show you/we are not alone.

The show must go on...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 23:48 
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It's odd really. TV is awash with programmes about how to be better parents / cooks / home buyers / sellers and yet driving is something the majority of the working population do. I'd have thought there would be enough interest in a series on improving one's driving skills - even for a mainstrem channel!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:38 
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Mole wrote:
It's odd really. TV is awash with programmes about how to be better parents / cooks / home buyers / sellers and yet driving is something the majority of the working population do. I'd have thought there would be enough interest in a series on improving one's driving skills - even for a mainstrem channel!

There have been a few. There was one last year (on in the mornings) about passing your driving test. But like the cooking/DIY/parenting programmes it was full of inaccuracies and errors - but we need to remember that TV is primarily entertainment and I'm sure you are aware of the lightweight way most topic are covered by 'presenters' who have no idea what they are actually talking about.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 13:13 
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TV might well be predominantly for entertainment, but its also the single most effective way of getting information into people's homes. Whether or not they choose to listen to the information is another matter...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 13:58 
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Sixy_the_red wrote:
TV might well be predominantly for entertainment, but its also the single most effective way of getting information into people's homes. Whether or not they choose to listen to the information is another matter...

The old 'Public Information Films' were pretty good but I'm not sure that there is much education in the majority of modern populist television programmes


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 15:19 
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I didn't suggest that there was, just that the platform is there.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 19:36 
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There are some very salient points to this argument about filming a vehicle and showing how to drive at speeds (which may exceed the limit) but as one thread says, you could be driving illegally and what would be the outcome of such an act.

We all saw the furore over P.C. Mark Milton when he filmed the manner in which he was driving but I still think that with all the facts involved he should have been prosecuted for breaking the law as any other driver would have been in the same circumstances.

If he wished to "familiarise himself" with the vehicle he should have used police (I think) rules and protocol and obtained permission from his superiors then there would be no case to answer as it would have been a genuine / authorised familiarisation drive.

Ther will always be a minority who think that they are not in need of instruction / training and will no matter what have a total disregard for the law and these are the ones who need to be dealt with as severely as possible and not the poor errant driver who makes a simple mistake of going a few miles over the limit for a few yards when passing a speed camera.

With regards to education of drivers I totally agree with the stance taken by certain parts of the Lancashire force to offer a "Refresher Course" in place of a fine & points as this in my opinion at least gives the errant driver the chance to see where they went wrong as there is too much emphasis on fines and points.

These should only be used when all other avenues of punishment have failed as this proves the point that the camera partnerships only have as their first priority recovering the costs of installing cameras and a poor second road safety (if at all).

With regards to the question about a lorry driver and the tacho evidence, as a lorry driver myself I am certain the tacho chart would not be evidence on it,s own as this only shows the manner or speed in which the vehicle was being driven at any one particular time (ie. erratically or with heavy & sudden braking etc. if the vehicle is involved in an accident for instance) and unless it can be proved that the vehicle was exceeding a particular speed limit (say 40mph on a single carriageway) I doubt if tacho evidence alone would stand up in court except to corroborate or to dispute as in some cases a police or camera prosecution.

As for GPs satellite tracking companies only use this for security of the vehicle and the load/driver and to be able to plan their workload for the vehicle, I don,t think that a T/Mgr would be happy about it being used for the purpose of evidence to prosecute a driver for breaking the law!

Again you would also have the problem of "boy racers" trying to emulate what they have seen on camera / T.V and without the proper tuition they might end up being involved in an accident.

Once someone passes their test there should be some kind of follow up whereby they receive further training at a later date say 12 or 24 months later when they have got some road experience not necessarily followed with a test but more of an appraisal.

We have all been young drivers and thought we could drive as fast as the next one and sometimes unfortunately they get it wrong with sadly serious or fatal consequences but with all the training in the world I don,t think you will ever eliminate the young driver who just wants to go as fast as he / she can as that is the thrill of going fast to young people.

Ad Infintum :D :D :D :soapbox: :) :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:40 
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Why would it be necessary to show the speedo on screen ? An wide angle camera giving clear pictures combined with a decent commentary would provide useful information. No danger of prosecution (?)


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 13:56 
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I'd go with overlaid graphics rather than speedo, could show throttle/brake position, gear etc, and when speed exceeds the profit-generating threshold videoshop it to read "safe speed for conditions"

ps don't get caught

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 19:16 
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A piece of incorrectly signed road could be used for the higher speed sections of the video :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 05:39 
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From my limited experience of making mini movies, It is best to write the script and record the basic script, then try to fit video to the script.

You can of course write the script with clips in mind. You can replace bits of the script with a piece to camera from "experts"

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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