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 Post subject: Icy weather driving
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 20:11 
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I am sure the powers that be are missing a trick by not telling people how to drive safely in winter weather. The stay at home unless absolutely necessary message is a bit of a cop out. Some people around here don't seem to understand that ice means virtually zero grip and very little steering. Parking up in the works car park the other morning I could turn my steering wheel left and right while stationary and had no resistance. I watched with incredulity as some person entered the car park at their normal speed without any regard for the weather. Luckily their bit of the road must have been gritted/in the morning sun otherwise they would have been sideways.

Snow on the road doesn't seem to lead to this behaviour which makes me think that people are just dim and don't realise black & shiny road in temps below zero = ice rather than wet bits! How do we educate the numpties about adverse weather when clearly they have no interest in modifying their behaviour?

I was also wondering whether proper studded winter tyres are legal to use in the UK. Nokian seem to do some which have decent all round capabilities and are gentler on the roads than previous studded tyres. Although if you're gadding about on your studded tyres people might think it is safe to go the same speed as you on their ordinary tyres so perhaps a flashing warning light is needed on the cars with them fitted :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 21:02 
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"Snow on the road doesn't seem to lead to this behaviour which makes me think that people are just dim and don't realise black & shiny road in temps below zero = ice rather than wet bits! How do we educate the numpties about adverse weather when clearly they have no interest in modifying their behaviour?"

A very effective way - make everyone ride a bicycle to work at least once a month. It very soon educates about black ice, frost, inconsiderate drivers and the inadequate provision given to this environmentally sound mode of transport.


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 Post subject: Re: Icy weather driving
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 21:10 
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teabelly wrote:
How do we educate the numpties about adverse weather when clearly they have no interest in modifying their behaviour?


The UK hasn't had a proper winter for a good few years now. Sure it gets a bit chilly and frosty every now and then but a prolonged spell of ice and snow - can't recall it myself.
There are probably now a large number of people who've never had to face along hard winter, consequently the effect of ice on the roads and their ability to control the car is a complete mystery to them.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 00:27 
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"The UK hasn't had a proper winter for a good few years now. "

Due to global warming?

And one of the main contributers is.....


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 Post subject: Re: Icy weather driving
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 07:41 
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teabelly wrote:
I am sure the powers that be are missing a trick by not telling people how to drive safely in winter weather.


I've noticed quite a bit that behaviour seems much worse on the first day or two of a cold spell, and especially the first cold spell of winter. Perhaps new and inexperienced drivers need to find out a few things for themselves. Perhaps more experienced drivers forget how to deal with low grip conditions. Either way it's an odd thing.

I'd love to see everyone getting skid pan training, but there are a lot of stories about skid pan training delivering more in the way increased confidence and little in the way of extra ability. In several famous studies skid pan training has been shown to have increased accident rates. Personally I think that's just evidence that the course content is often wrong.

My number one practical winter driving tip is to test the effect of your brakes well before you know you'll need them. So for example if approaching a give way, instead of planning your braking to take account of what you think the grip may be, actually try the brakes about 100 yards too early. In this case if grip turns out to be very low you have more space to sort it out.

Be especially cautious on downhills in icy conditions. It's sometimes possible that you won't be able to slow down at all.

If planning a trip in bad conditions, carry food, blankets, hot drinks and extra clothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Icy weather driving
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 07:44 
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teabelly wrote:
I was also wondering whether proper studded winter tyres are legal to use in the UK. Nokian seem to do some which have decent all round capabilities and are gentler on the roads than previous studded tyres. Although if you're gadding about on your studded tyres people might think it is safe to go the same speed as you on their ordinary tyres so perhaps a flashing warning light is needed on the cars with them fitted :roll:


Conventional studded tyres self-destruct if run on tarmac. The studs are worn flat in a couple of hundred miles, maximum.

There's been talk (and actual product I think) of a newer design with retractable studs. They were said to be OK on tarmac. I don't actually know if these exist. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:54 
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I always thought it would be good to have electrically operated studs so they could pop out when you need them and pop back when you didn't. Possibly a bit too James Bond for every day use though :) I suppose the simplest way to do it would be with tyre pressure. Stick in 36psi to get the studs proud and let air out to get them to go back down again. If you did have remote air valve release on the tyres then you could let them down without getting out of the car.


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 Post subject: Re: Icy weather driving
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:59 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
My number one practical winter driving tip is to test the effect of your brakes well before you know you'll need them. So for example if approaching a give way, instead of planning your braking to take account of what you think the grip may be, actually try the brakes about 100 yards too early. In this case if grip turns out to be very low you have more space to sort it out.

Be especially cautious on downhills in icy conditions. It's sometimes possible that you won't be able to slow down at all.

If planning a trip in bad conditions, carry food, blankets, hot drinks and extra clothing.


I tend to try the brakes where there is space and no parked cars in the vicinity in case one end of the car decides to let go before the other if I brake too hard. I haven't driven in many really cold winters but somehow I seem to have the sense to realise that ice has no grip without having to learn the hard way. It's almost like the cars people are driving today aren't communicating anything about the road surface so the drivers just don't realise there is anything different when it is icy compared to when it is normal weather. Or perhaps they just don't understand what no resistance through the steering actually means. :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 19:52 
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George Painter wrote:
"The UK hasn't had a proper winter for a good few years now. "

Due to global warming?

And one of the main contributers is.....


Cars?? Well, here's a statistic from the United Nations, no less. If ALL car usage stopped in the UK, the overall contribution to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions on the planet would be.....









0.0002% (fact!)



(Incidentally, the contribution of all the cars on the planet is...... 0.6% - again fact).


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 19:58 
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George Painter wrote:
"The UK hasn't had a proper winter for a good few years now. "

Due to global warming?

And one of the main contributers is.....


Termite farts....... :lol:

There are 1 tonne of termites for every human on earth. The are the greatest natural surce of greenhouse gasses.

As for me...I thing this CO2 hysteria is complete b*llocks... :?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 22:42 
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Termites fart? :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 05:06 
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Anthropogenic global warming theory took a big hit recently when the "hockey stick" temperature plot turned out to be a mere artifact of the method used. See this Google:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B%22ho ... 2debunk%22

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