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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 16:47 
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Zippo wrote:

Hi Viz clothing of any description would definitely have been of benefit on both those occasions.



Also heard a tale from a railway boss, when the subject of Hi Viz came up . Mate of his was cycling to work in London dressed in full hi viz gear -jacket/trousers etc. When cut up by a car ,the response by driver was SMIDSY .

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 04:18 
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Mostly Hi Viz is more likely to help than hinder It is only that you might blend in within a host of other hi viz in more densely populated areas where many where them.
Perhaps more attractive and variable Hi Viz colours might now be a better development to help people stand out more individually.

A shame the cyclist threw abuse - hardly a call for it = or maybe you were the 8th car to stop and give advice ! :) (Id say more but the A82 at night is a pretty quiet road!)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 08:26 
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I have mentioned this before.

My feeling is that Hi-Viz can be effective if it used with care (Definatly a case of "Less is more" you need just enough to pick you out but no more than that) but more often than not it is used excessivly and tends to behave more like the "Dazzle Camouflage" that was used to protect ships against U-boat attack during WW1

It doesnt make you invisible by any means, but it can make it difficult to work out exactly where you are (Sometimes even WHAT you are!), what direction you are traveling in and how fast you are traveling. All of which is good for foiling a torpedo attack but pretty damn dangerous on the road and can easily result in, not so much "SMIDSY'S" but rather "Sorry mate, I couldnt tell where/what you were!"

I had a similar experiance a couple of months back when driving at night. I was confronted by some cyclists coming the other way using those very bright LED lights. Very bright, very visible. The only problem was they were point sources (And narrow dispersion ones at that, almost like a Laser beam). They could have been anywhere from half a mile away to right in front of my face. and there was absolutly no way of telling wether they were stationary or travelig at 40MPH!

Not nice if you are trying to work out wether it is ok to overtake or make a right turn!

I wonder wether any accident stats are building up over this

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 22:05 
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botach wrote:
When cut up by a car ,the response by driver was SMIDSY .

I sometimes wonder if it isn't more a case of "sorry mate I did see you but for some strage reason it didn't register" :?

Not quite so snappy mind ......... SMIDSYBFSSRIDR :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 02:48 
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Not seen much in the way of dissected Stats with cyclist figures, you're lucky to get much other than very basic 'cyclist'. Even the separation of 'adults' to 'children' is not forthcoming but can sometimes be deduced from collating the data or an approximation of it.

The HiViz can be a 'flood' to the eye, and become all too much in some cases. Of course when this happens it males complete sense to slow until the 'eye-confusion' is clear and a proper assessment can be formed.
I agree too that the 'flood' of HiViz stops the process of distance and that high intensity lights can also prevent this as well. It is of course hard to look at a light source, as one naturally wants to look away. That light source might even hide other traffic too which is another problem.
I can't say though that I have experienced seeing a 'haze of HiViz' too often - have you ?
Roadworkers would be my most likely sight of this ...
I wonder if Cambridge (where there are an exceptionally high number of cyclists) (but perhaps less cars), has any higher incidents of 'group' accidents?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 20:19 
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Zippo wrote:
botach wrote:
When cut up by a car ,the response by driver was SMIDSY .

I sometimes wonder if it isn't more a case of "sorry mate I did see you but for some strage reason it didn't register" :?

Not quite so snappy mind ......... SMIDSYBFSSRIDR :roll:



I would ( in pedantic mode tonight ) say for some STRANGE reason it didn't register :D , but I'd agree. Eyes see, but message gets scrambled on way to brain . Possibly the fault of too much roadside info .:roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 03:56 
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Horse wrote:
Haven't logged in for a while, so *waves* :surprise:

Thought this might be of interest (also re: the m/c 'hi-viz in Europe' thread):

http://www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge_co ... mplete.pdf

:welcome: back ! :)

A most interesting report at first scan.

I wonder if all cars were fitted with night vision and with thermal imaging then would those added aids provide enough extra information (or a warning signal when 'close proximity' was sensed), to help alert the motorist that people were about, as somehow they have missed them ?

How much has 'the cry wolf effect' turned motorists off to any possible workforce being about when it is a rarity when travelling through roadworks and thus the lower limits ignored just when it really matters ?

How many accidents at roadworks actually involve 'passing' traffic (than road works traffic) anyway ?

... or as Sir Srthur Colon Doyle said in his Sherlock Holmes stories, (can't find a quick reference) but here in an alternative form : "Sometimes You Look, But You Do Not See"
or more recently : You See But You Do Not Observe by Robert J. Sawyer and :
"Henry David Thoreau: The question is not what you look at, but what you see."
In essence the 'seeing' is the thinking and comprehension beyond what we have 'looked at'. The looking not necessarily considering the image. 'A thoughtful observer sees all'! or Without a brain we can look but see nothing. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:33 
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botach wrote:
Zippo wrote:
botach wrote:
When cut up by a car ,the response by driver was SMIDSY .

I sometimes wonder if it isn't more a case of "sorry mate I did see you but for some strage reason it didn't register" :?

Not quite so snappy mind ......... SMIDSYBFSSRIDR :roll:


I would ( in pedantic mode tonight ) say for some STRANGE reason it didn't register :D , but I'd agree. Eyes see, but message gets scrambled on way to brain . Possibly the fault of too much roadside info .:roll:


In the same way I know perfectly well how to spell strange .... but for some reason typed strage .... maybe my fingers were speeding :lol:

I use 2 motorcycles, one is bright red and a bit loud, not real loud, I don't like loud, has original standard exhaust system in good nick, the other is a rather attractive metallic blue and is pretty quiet at in town speeds.

The red (noisier) one has never that I can recall been pulled out in front of, the blue (quieter) one gets pulled out in front of now and then, specially happens on roundabouts, its as if sometimes it is invisible. Riding gear is the same.

Same rider/riding style, same riding gear - different make, style, and colour of bike, different noise levels.

There are other differences, one says "Ducati" in big white letters on the front fairing the other says "Scottoiler" on a tiny little sticker on the front fairing. One looks like a "real sports bike" the other doesn't look like anything special (although in reality much quicker).

I don't know what it is that makes other drivers seemingly always see one but sometimes not see the other .... or they do see it but either the info doesn't register .... or they deliberately pull out in front of ???

Does Ducati register more than say Honda or Suzuki etc? Is it the brand name that gets noticed? I really don't know. I wouldn't think so but hey stranger things have been discovered!

My personal opinion is that its the noise level that makes the difference, "Hi Viz noise" :D , no actual evidence to back that up mind.

Are maybe stricter noise regulations resulting in more SMIDSY type collisions? and it is nowt much to do with sight?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:35 
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Zippo wrote:

Are maybe stricter noise regulations resulting in more SMIDSY type collisions? and it is nowt much to do with sight?


It would be interesting, if you are right, to know if EVs and Hybrids are involved in more SMIDSY accidents than "noisy" vehicles...

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