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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 15:52 
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weepej wrote:
Thatsnews wrote:
Well, no. In our area the first speed camera was place somewhere with no history of accidents (in fact I can't recall there having been any accident there in 20 years)


It's often surprising how many crashes do take place that you don't know about.

I bet if you did some research you'd uncover several fatalities.


No. There was not ONE. You see, as part of my job every day I get reports from the police (several times a day) of everything from a stolen bike to every robbery and every car accident.

And I know that stretch of road very well indeed. And I did research it (with the help of a local road safety campaigner) and guess what? No fatalities there in living memory. So they lied in order to have the camera installed.

Mind you, there have been a few minor bumps since the speed camera was installed...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 20:18 
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Tom Heavey wrote:
What I have attempted to do with the book is to look at the discussion from a non scientific but qualified point of view and offer corrective exercises to prevent us from killing each other.


Out of interest, what qualificatipons do you have that you consider to be relevant to this debate? I understand that you are an ex-ADI. Can I ask to what level and for how many years?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 02:42 
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Location: Highlands
English version of
this (thanks Wild Cat)

-----------------

RN21. After the accident, questions put themselves as for the place where it produced himself, where the accidents are rather rare but very violents. Juillan: an investigation to determine the causes of the mortal accident RN 21: an investigation to determine the causes of the mortal accident Extracts: RN 21: an investigation to determine the causes of the mortal accident RN21.

As experts, there be: interviewers to the specific formations to the road Security; a policeman; a specialist of the road infrastructure (DDE); a specialist of the maintenance of the roads (DDE or general counsel); a doctor the Samu; an expert automobile and a psychologist.

The drama that unfolded itself day before yesterday on the RN21, where Vanessa Laïle, a young woman of 23 years, found the death, deeply shocked. The very place where produced itself the accident is unanimement describes as a « not at all black ». Yesterday, a policeman present on the places confided: « One does not count more the accidents to this place. There is especially material accidents, but there are some very often. »

What in is it exactly? The amount crude seem to deny this impression of not at all black on this portion of the road: between 2001 and 2008, be on 7 years, had 5 noted accidents, of which 3 mortal ones. Had 2 injureds engrave and 4 injureds lighter, hospitalized nos. For so few accidents, one notes the proportional number very raised of killed and of injureds engrave, this that proves the extreme violence of the accidents to this place.

5 accidents in 7 years, this is enough little to the look of the traffic: 14.000 vehicles a day according to the counting of the DDE and to 20.000 the days of strong crowd (vacation, pèlerinages…). investigate


But it prevents only the latter dramatic accident did to react authorities: « in keeping with the prefect, I requested that an investigation "To Understand To Act" be immediately diligentée. » Explains the guiding one of office, Mireille Larède. « It is a matter of an administrative one very pushed investigation, diligentée by the prefecture, that will call together a number of experts, loaded in end to do suggestions, if need is. »

The high school of experts will be formed in a manner to sweep all the aspects and all the parameters that intervened during the course of the accident. As experts, there be: interviewers to the specific formations to the road Security; a policeman; a specialist of the road infrastructure (DDE); a specialist of the maintenance of the roads (DDE or general counsel); a doctor the Samu; an expert automobile and a psychologist.

All the factors raised by the experts will be taken into account and passed to the screen.

Raised informations will be transmitted to the regional Direction of the roads and the suggestions then will be done as for installations to realize.

This investigation will last a month and half about.

Published February 13 2008 to 09h27 | Author: Hélène Dubarry.
----------------------------------------

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 02:44 
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and also on the same page to above link ...

---------------
On the same theme

* Cancon. Fatal collision for a man of 47 years
* Auch. Call to witnesses after a mortal accident
* mortal Accident to Holy alban
* road Security. Investigations to understand and avoid the worse one
* mortal Accidents: the behavior of the cyclists in causes
-----------------------

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 03:01 
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I cannot possibly agree that cameras do any good whatsoever.
Evidence is building from Hosp stats that things are worse, than the reports by the Gov. bodies. None of the figures show any performance improvement at all, if anything indications are worse.
Just because the Gov / and now Councils wish to use the cameras as an all singing, all dancing, road safety solution does not mean that they are right.

Take any page from the Safe Speed website and show me where we could be wrong. Show me any evidence anywhere that might corroborates your thoughts.

Even the TRL with their document here shows that it is clearly better to actually do NOTHING than install cameras - and far better to put police back on the roads. The Police will obviously now, need more training to help them to understand the traffic as they have had to spend too long doing paper work ! However just their presence is positive by a large percentage. Intelligent human input will always exceed numeric infringements.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 01:10 
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Thoroughly convinced that I am in the significant minority that read this book while it was still free to read, I will give my opinion of its weaknesses here ...

The existence of a speed camera is sold to the masses on the basis that it benefits the society it is being imposed upon, often without its explicit or direct consent.

The only group that consistently profits from speed cameras are those who monetarily profit from them.

The correlation between the implementation of speed cameras, the policy that permitted them, and the loss of trend is obfuscated by reworking the numbers to suit the assumption that 'speed cameras won't go away'.

They are a distraction that Mr Heavey tacitly accepts as here to stay. Like Julia's character in 1984, he focuses on not getting caught as the strategy for success.

He fails to effectively admit that either the mere existence or the unspoken purpose of speed cameras is the real problem.

While emphasizing the development of the most important driver skills - observation and risk assessment/control - he effectively excuses the birth and proliferation of a distraction, then asserts that one should better their skill level to compensate for a distraction that shouldn't be there in the 1st place.

Time will tell whether or not the profits from this book might be needed to offset a speed camera penalty. Fate forbid that he be distracted by a camera in the wrong place at the wrong time; such a price to revoke his membership to the collective solipsism of the scameraship would be too high.

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The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation


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 Post subject: Re: Speed Cameras
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 13:28 
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Tom Heavey wrote:
So do speed cameras work.....absolutely. The simplest way to explain how, is to acknowledge that speed cameras are a speed reduction tool. Currently they have reduced a few mph in average speed from those driving in excess of the speed limit, which has resulted in saving around 100 deaths per year.


I STILL am yet to see an argument for Speed cameras that is based on logic, reason and common sense, NOT regurgitated statistics.

Are those 100 deaths a year Nationwide, Countywide or at each camera site? How was the figure arrived at? What sample sites were used, and are these sites typical of UK speed camera installations? What sample sizes were used? Are these sample sizes large enough to be representative of the National picture? Was regression to the mean taken into account in the production of this figure? If so, what method was used to do this? What method was used to determine that reduction in average traffic speed was indeed responsible for the reduction in road deaths? Was the "grouping" of causation factors changed in any way between the "before" sample and the "after" sample?

Paul was a lot better at this than me. His list of questions would have been ten times this size!!

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