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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:10 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7193406.stm


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Night traffic ban at trouble spot
A road in the centre of Carlisle is to be closed to traffic on weekend nights in a bid to reduce disorder.

For the next year and a half, only emergency vehicles will be allowed onto a stretch of Botchergate on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.

Police say there has been trouble there in the past, with thousands of pub and club-goers crammed into a small area.

The closure runs from The Crescent to Tait Street and also affects parts of Mary Street and Portland Place.

Buses will be re-routed during the experimental scheme, which will run from 17 January for 18 months.

During that time, restrictions will be in place from 2100 until 0500 GMT.

Enjoyable experience

Insp Andy Shaddock, from Cumbria Police, said there had been a shift in the city's night-time economy to a concentrated area on Botchergate, leading to thousands of people in the area between those times.

He said: "This has led to trouble, and if we can take off some of the pressures we will hopefully remove some of the problems.

"There has also been a number of traffic accidents, well above the average for a street of this nature, because of people spilling out into the road.

"What we want to do is remove the traffic, to make it safer and a more enjoyable experience for people."

The introduction of the scheme has twice been delayed as council workers erecting the gates to block the road had to deal with problems caused by the wintry weather.


There has been one fatality on this street - unfortunately a pedestrian struck by a police vehicle.
But shouldn't we be seeing to it that pedestrians are not allowed to place themselves in danger AND behave in an antisocial manner due to drink?

Wetherspoons have been suspended from BarWatch for breaking an agreement not to sell cheap alcohol.
They are currently running a promotion of a gin and tonic for 99p where BarWatch had insisted on £1.50 being the minimum.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 13:32 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7193406.stm


Quote:
Night traffic ban at trouble spot
A road in the centre of Carlisle is to be closed to traffic on weekend nights in a bid to reduce disorder.

For the next year and a half, only emergency vehicles will be allowed onto a stretch of Botchergate on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.

Police say there has been trouble there in the past, with thousands of pub and club-goers crammed into a small area.

The closure runs from The Crescent to Tait Street and also affects parts of Mary Street and Portland Place.

Buses will be re-routed during the experimental scheme, which will run from 17 January for 18 months.

During that time, restrictions will be in place from 2100 until 0500 GMT.

Enjoyable experience

Insp Andy Shaddock, from Cumbria Police, said there had been a shift in the city's night-time economy to a concentrated area on Botchergate, leading to thousands of people in the area between those times.

He said: "This has led to trouble, and if we can take off some of the pressures we will hopefully remove some of the problems.

"There has also been a number of traffic accidents, well above the average for a street of this nature, because of people spilling out into the road.

"What we want to do is remove the traffic, to make it safer and a more enjoyable experience for people."

The introduction of the scheme has twice been delayed as council workers erecting the gates to block the road had to deal with problems caused by the wintry weather.


There has been one fatality on this street - unfortunately a pedestrian struck by a police vehicle.
But shouldn't we be seeing to it that pedestrians are not allowed to place themselves in danger AND behave in an antisocial manner due to drink?

Wetherspoons have been suspended from BarWatch for breaking an agreement not to sell cheap alcohol.
They are currently running a promotion of a gin and tonic for 99p where BarWatch had insisted on £1.50 being the minimum.


This is ridiculous! Wetherspoons has, nationally, one of the tightest systems to not allow staff to serve drunks (I have seen it in action when two drunks were thrown out of a Wetherspoons, having been allowed to become steaming drunk by other 'responsible' pubs) and I'd guess much of the trouble with drunks in the area comes from other pubs.

A friend of mine was criticised for selling beer at £1.00 a pint several years ago. Strangely enough he had no problems with drunks and anti-social behaviour. Yet one of the other pubs who complained about my mate's pricing policy was an utter dive which was always having the police called in to deal with anti-social behaviour... often caused by the landlord (and his weird family!) who eventually lost his license!

A blanket ban on cheap prices -and a committee who price fixes (illegally??) is about as sensible as using speed cameras to police driving law.

There's more to anti-social behaviour and drunken behaviour than cheap prices.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 14:17 
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Thatsnews wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
Wetherspoons have been suspended from BarWatch for breaking an agreement not to sell cheap alcohol.
They are currently running a promotion of a gin and tonic for 99p where BarWatch had insisted on £1.50 being the minimum.

A blanket ban on cheap prices -and a committee who price fixes (illegally??) is about as sensible as using speed cameras to police driving law.

Yes, sounds very much like an attempt to create an illegal cartel by businesses who are struggling against the competition provided by Wetherspoon's - which goes far beyond simply offering lower prices.

Actually, in my experience, there can often be an inverse relationship between regular drink prices and responsibility for disorder amongst town centre pubs and bars.

In the centre of Stockport we have two Samuel Smith's pubs that are still selling bitter for a mere £1.26 a pint. But you can be assured it is not their customers who are causing trouble on the streets after closing time.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 15:11 
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Plus, again, it's penalising the less well-off in our society who can drink sensibly. Similar to the congestion charge - the richer will just carry on as usual...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 16:24 
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Actually as I understand it, Wetherspoons HAD signed up to the BarWatch policy - but dropped it when their national promotion was introduced.

I can see the point of cheap alcohol encouraging abuse, and if one outlet drops it's price, drinkers (of G&T) may likely go there first, and end up drunk somewhere else.
However the issue is not of antisocial behaviour on the licensed premises, but in the streets around their location.
I see no mention was made of putting railings up to keep pedestrians off the road - perhaps it was not deemed suitable.

However I have witnessed the actions of pedestrians the worse for drink in my own town, but closing the road should not be the first option IMHO.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 21:29 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
There has been one fatality on this street - unfortunately a pedestrian struck by a police vehicle. But shouldn't we be seeing to it that pedestrians are not allowed to place themselves in danger AND behave in an antisocial manner due to drink?


I certainly agree with your comments on antisocial behaviour - I can't stand drunks, unless I'm drunk too. But I'm not so sure about the "place themselves in danger" comment. We have all manner of things that are dangerous and allowed. If one can descend into the crater of an active volcano tied to a rope, or go diving through dark, water logged caves, or go sailing in the seas in a tiny, 25 foot boot, then certainly one should be able to get totally pissed up and fall over into the street.

If only drinkers could confine themselves to falling over into the street, the UK would be a far better country, IMHO. It is my experience that motorists are well advised to take care at night, especially in towns with ale houses.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 21:38 
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PeterE wrote:
In the centre of Stockport we have two Samuel Smith's pubs that are still selling bitter for a mere £1.26 a pint. But you can be assured it is not their customers who are causing trouble on the streets after closing time.


As far as I know, Stockport is the best place in the UK for boozers. I used to work at Abney Hall (you must know it), and there were 20 pubs within walking distance, all with real ale. The best was The Griffin, in Heaton Whatever. Now I brew my own beer. You should try it - I only pay 10p a pint, so I don't really care how high taxes go.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 22:16 
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IMO it makes a bit of sense, my daughter has just started to go clubbing, i prefer to go and pick her up from town around the 12.30ish mark, sitting and waiting theres

A. drunks (BTW normally females) staggering everywhere,
B. taxis double parked,
C. boy racers cruising

numerous times i have seen road rage, people trying to get into moving cars, kids falling onto the road,

theres no way the authority will close the pubs nexrt best thing shut the roads


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 00:57 
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I wonder if someone will get killed / raped or seriously injured in a fight who would otherwise have been picked up in a taxi or by a parent (as in the example above)?

In my view, this is just another attempt to treat the symptoms and not the problem.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 01:24 
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Mole wrote:
I wonder if someone will get killed / raped or seriously injured in a fight who would otherwise have been picked up in a taxi or by a parent (as in the example above)?

In my view, this is just another attempt to treat the symptoms and not the problem.


If pedestrians are so drunk they are a danger to themselves and/or to others, why not just... arrest them? Or is that too radical an idea? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:33 
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Valle Crucis wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
There has been one fatality on this street - unfortunately a pedestrian struck by a police vehicle. But shouldn't we be seeing to it that pedestrians are not allowed to place themselves in danger AND behave in an antisocial manner due to drink?


I certainly agree with your comments on antisocial behaviour - I can't stand drunks, unless I'm drunk too. But I'm not so sure about the "place themselves in danger" comment. We have all manner of things that are dangerous and allowed. If one can descend into the crater of an active volcano tied to a rope, or go diving through dark, water logged caves, or go sailing in the seas in a tiny, 25 foot boot, then certainly one should be able to get totally pissed up and fall over into the street.

If only drinkers could confine themselves to falling over into the street, the UK would be a far better country, IMHO. It is my experience that motorists are well advised to take care at night, especially in towns with ale houses.

But if that is the case, then making crash helmets and seatbelts compulsory becomes unnecessary state interference with the right to injure ourselves! :oops:

Is suicide still illegal?

I would plump for railings to keep pedestrians on the pavement if it were possible.
Shutting the road is giving in to people's stupidity, and merely moving the problem along - they will simply presume that having been allowed to wonder into the roadway on one street, they can do it on the next.

Give them all a number, make them read the Highway Code, and submit them to a test! :twisted:

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