Safe Speed Forums

First my transgression.

Today while traveling on the M23 past a slip road near Crawley I nearly collected a car in the back of mine during a lane change.

I was in lane 2 (where I am most of the time going past an on slip) observing the on slip to work out when it was safe to pull back into L1. On determining that I could make the change I checked rear view mirror, nearside door mirror and then my blind spot. All were clear so I indicated and started to move into L1.

This maneuver was greeted by a sudden horn sound from a car that had decided to undertake me (my speed was about an indicated 70). I have no idea where they came from. Thinking about my driving I may have missed a final rearview mirror check before pulling into L1. But L2 was clear as far as I could see. As was L1.

My only conclusion is the the car was a L3 swooper for the next exit. But that does not make sense as the next off ramp is about a mile further on.

Any suggestions on how to prevent this in future?

Numpties

This time on the A23 just outside Brighton I was overtaken by a VW (again my indicated speed about 70). No problem I was happy where I was and as far as I could tell the VW was driving safely.

Then for no apparent reason I was catching the VW. Then there was a problem. The VW had started to wander in their lane L2. So I backed off. However I was still catching up. Eventually I was down to 60. and the VW was still drifting in their lane. Unwilling to undertake a wandering car I remained about 2 seconds behind observing their erratic course.

By this time another car in L2 had caught the VW. This is when I saw the most stupid act I have seen for a while. The VW suddenly brake tested the other car This slowed both cars down and I was able to see why the VW was driving so odd. He was on the phone

Eventually the VW must have come off the phone because suddenly he was off like a scalded cat. Goodbye idiot I thought. But no about 5 minutes further down the road I overtook the VW. He was again on the phone driving like an idiot but this time in L1.

I am a bit ambivalennt about mobile use in cars. However this was a good example of someone who when on the phone whilst driving is a menace (sp).

Drive as if you might be changing lanes within the next five seconds constantly. Fighter pilots call it situational awareness, SA for short. Being a cabdriver myself, I simply call it normal driving.Numpties ...
If one drives in a manner where using a cellphone significantly changes their drivingstyle, then:
A) the conversation is too important not to pull over
B) the road user needs further training
C) A & B

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

I watched a guy drive through the Hanger Lane Gyratory whilst on his phone recently, he was all over the place, and patently changing gear with his free hand.

He was speeding too.

Still, nothing happend so it must have been safe to do.

Use all three mirrors. Make sure you position the wing mirrors for best poss view. Check all three - check all three as constant eye flick too.

It's perhaps as I posted, recently, on a PH thread over moving from L3 to slip road in a "swoop" It's still our COAST.. looking ahead and around.. looking for the gap and being sure you can slip into the flow at a match speed so as not to disrupt the flow.


Must have been correct . Von gave me a



I agree with my wife. Only a fool holds a phone in hand really.

If it's a "must" - use hands-free devices.

Better still.. enjoy your car

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Quite possible he joined the motorway at the previous junction and was travelling at speed up L1. Its all down to observation on our part to make sure we don't collect another vehicle whose driver is hell bent on being a prat!



Someone who would probably swear on their mother's grave that they only ever use their phone whilst driving when it was safe to do so.

_________________
Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

It's favouritism I tell ye.



The rudeness is surplus to requirements, thank you.

.... and the hands-free gubbins, apart from being legal, offers no useful advantage.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I think my wife's post on "Paulie und von (Do you know how to whack on botty with stats.. Paulie does .. run von.. run.. poor von (with various on von's police gear and Paul's beard) " must be one of the PH "legends" in terms of side splitting fun. (She turned the Wogan Janet and John.. into "Paulie und von" once. ))


All I can say .. my life with her is never dull.


Honestly. I have no idea where she gets these funnies from But von saw the funny side as did Paul




Ah.. but you can still chatter. on hands free.

But.. I do not see why I should be a slave to a phone. It records the message or the missed call. I can deal with later all the same.


I confess I find my phone's best use is that of alarm clock or radio. on spin bike down the gym. Am in training for another "epic charity do and I just have to beat them Swiss guys )

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

100%

_________________
Simon

Thanks for the replies

My SA is normally very good. I use all mirrors regularly whilst driving. Also my blind spot checking has gone up significantly since passing my bike test wish it was as good before then.

As for where the other car came from? I had pulled out from L1 to L2 after going past the off slip of the junction. There were no cars behind me in L1 for several hundred yards and I pulled into L2 in a considerable gap of several hundred yards. So to the rear of me was a road that was clear in both L1 and L2. I always try to move to L2 going past an on slip so I am not forced to make any sudden changes in speed or direction by an on slip vehicle.

Total time from pulling into L2 and going back to L1 was about 15 seconds.

I think I had an Obs failure moment compounded by a (as RipPig called it ) Prat. 25 yrs of driving and still the odd error creeps in.

As for the phone driver.

I have seen many people drive whilst on the phone and been in many cars where the driver was on the phone. I have not seen such a significant amount of difference in driving ability before and this was on one of the easiest roads to drive. How this driver behaves in a heavier hazard environment would be interesting, if not tragic.

My ambivalence will need to be reassessed.

I try not to change lanes. Or at least change lanes as least frequently as humanly possible. It is always at the point of changing lanes that “things happen”. It's a pest at junctions. I slow down to 50, and get behind a truck - trucks make good battering rams!

At least it didn't come in, sit down, grab a beer, put its feet up ...
Whatever it is you almost failed to notice, continue looking for that, and it won't catch you off guard again.

Regarding mirror adjustment, I tend to find that most people adjust their side mirrors so that they can see a portion of the side of their car without any head turning, just eye movement.

This blows my mind.

Try adjusting your mirrors so that the edges of the car are not visible until your neck cranes ever so slightly.Personally, the only differences I can detect between a two way radio and a phone, are several protocols involving the use of the two way radio - mostly stick to business, be courteous and professional, get to the point, avoid idle chit chat, either the radio or the steering wheel NOT BOTH ... and the fact that each person takes discrete turns speaking and listening.

Most drivers who demonstrate bad radio protocol and/or etiquette don't last long as taxi drivers. Generally, about 50% of those who want or feel a need to drive a taxi, cannot use a two way radio and drive safely.

I imagine that the non-taxi population shares a significantly lower ratio of people who can safely use a phone whilst driving, because of the lack of protocols; most dangerous being the fact that two people can talk over each other is a virulent breeding ground for massive distractions.

Although I am quite capable of speaking on the cellphone while driving with six or seven passengers without any additional risk to anyone, I have almost never found it necessary. Usually, there are plenty of redlights and stop signs. If there aren't, and the conversation is that important, and the radio is unclear, using the phone with all radio protocols in place, while carefully choosing the time and place to speak, is the minimum consideration required for safe phone usage. (The words 'stand by' are used often.)

In other words, even if I am using the phone while driving, I am driving 1st, and using the phone comes in a distant 2nd only when and where I allow it.

Perhaps the portion of the population - majority - that cannot be trusted to speak on a phone and drive safely at the same time, simply lack, decorum, etiquette, and protocol?

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

Many taxi drivers in the UK now use throat microphones now.

_________________
www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Rush, I must admit I do enjoy reading your posts.

Easy to follow, sensible, and well written

_________________
Simon

Quite right; you shouldn't be, and neither should I, and I'm not.

It's all about freedom to make our own choices about things, and I do.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

An obvious form of 'slavery' to the phone is the Pavlovian, unconsidered, reflexive answering of the phone at every ring, regardless of when/where it rings.

A less obvious form is never answering it while driving because some sanctimonious pricks who
A) can't drive
B) see driving as a chore
C) are passing on pusillanimous propaganda
D) profit from a barely educated and skilled public whose major skill is to swallow the 'law' without seeing, smelling, touching, tasting, or chewing it first

decided to oversimplify a lie and call it a law, in order to make it easier for 'duh'mbasses to swallow.

Not every driver is qualified - or has the freedom - to use the phone while driving. That is what the L-Test should be for: to test one's ability to make safe judgements about how to behave - to interact socially - while driving, with due care and attention.

Upon demonstrating socially responsible tendencies while driving during the L-Test, one is entitled to interact with society in a new way: with a license to drive.

To hop ahead a bit, there appears to be a correlation between the disintegrating standards of etiquette and decorum generally, the difficulty of the L-Test, and the increasingly dangerous manner in which people choose to behave while driving.

By the way, I think throat mikes are so cool ...

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

The absence of a smilie suggests a little dig at us perhaps?

I would rather a good driver concentrating at 5 or 10mph over than a distracted driver at 15mph under.

Still, scameras always get the right man - don't they?


PS. I agree that Rush is always spot on Ever thought of trading the American dream for the English nightmare?

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

[offtopic]Thank you. I have been incredibly lucky. I've learned to analyze my experiences properly, sought unbiased advice, rephrased questions to get better answers, and enjoyed the process of learning.
Absent those urges, I'd never have broken my adrenaline addiction. (cue ominous music ...)Funny you should ask.
For some time, I've been seriously considering gaining either German, Italian, or British citzenship, primarily for the purpose of growing as a driver.
I will make up my mind which I will go to 1st, in roughly one year's time.Big Tone, you just gave me an idea for another good poll. Thanks again. (Try this one for starters.)
[/offtopic]
Speed isn't the major issue in weepej's example, nor is it in either of theboxers examples.
The major issues at hand are
1) failure of observation
2 & 3) wasted attention due to prioritizing a cellphone conversation over driving directly causing obiviously and grossly diminished car control.

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

Nice link Rush, hadn't seen it, and one which deserved much more coverage IMO. Very important!!

How utterly stupid is it, in the extreme, that someone can be done for speeding for so little over the limit and lose their licence and livelihood when alternatively you could be doing: here I go again for the Xnth time...

drink, drugs, fiddling with radio/AC, air vents on/off/up/down etc., mob/(cell) goes off, kids screaming in the back...............

Oh, but you speeder! You killer you murderer!!!

How utterly pathetic/wrong/inaccurate can you get pontificating about the wrongs of going too fast in the name of safety?

I'm actually getting to a point where I'm sick of banging on about the same thing which is soo f n obvious: I feel like doing the 'observe, subscribe but don't post'.

I am concerned with safety! Preserving life and quality of life!

When I worked in America I saw and met such wonderful people just as I have throughout Europe We're pretty good here in great britain Rush although not so great anymore. (lower case on purpose)

I will go against any law which harms people or puts pecuniary gain over people.

Every troll I have had the misfortune to encounter here do not care about safety!!

They can come on here, denigrate us and when the going gets tough or their argument falls to pieces, or when maybe one day there is a change in policy based on SAFETY, they will disappear like a fart in the wind....

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

It's a matter of where you view things from. Viewed from way up above, every accident is due to speed. All the detailed granularity that people here bring into the picture is simply not visible when you view car crashes from 200 foot up, for example - you simply have fast things colliding with other fast things, or sturdy things.

And that view is correct. The other view (the one with the detail in it) is correct as well. Both views are completely correct at the same time, even though they are totally different! That is possible because they are viewing the same thing at different levels.

You can see more patterns from high up. But you can see more detail from low down. The low-down brigade will never agree with the high-up brigade (and vice versa) until they recognise the reason and validity of the other perspective.

And if that ever happened, there would be absolutely no point in posting here again!

Wow Tone, you put it bold so it must be right eh?
So c'mon mate, tell me exactly how you know this. How do you know that someone who comes on this forum to disagree with the SS campaign, and has the temerity to be persistent in their stance (which is what usually results in the 'troll' tag lets face it), doesn't actually care about safety?
After all, its one heck of a wild accusation isn't it, bearing in mind that the majority of ,er, trolls will be road users in one form or another. Seems a bit strange to not care about road safety when they are as likely as anyone else to be a victim of road safety failures!

_________________
Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.