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ed_m
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 09:37 
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in my inbox this morning -
http://www.safehighwaysofthefuture.com/

Quote:
Zero deaths on Europe's roads
Impossible fantasy or achievable goal?
Come and join the debate. . .


Safe Highways of the Future 2008 will focus on the next 10 to 20 years and the technologies and changes required to enable zero deaths on Europe's roads to become reality



Speakers and contributors include:

Dr Robert Zobel
Head of accident research,Volkswagen AG

John Dawson
Chairman European Roads Assessment Programme (EuroRAP)

Agneta Sjörgen
Head of Intelligent Vehicle Technologies
Volvo Technology Corporation

Professor Adrian Hobbs
European New Car Assessment Programme (EuroNCAP)

Yves Page
Deputy Director Laboratoire d'Accidentologie, de Biomécanique et d'études du comportement humain (LAB) PSA Peugeot Citroën - Renault


a fuller list of topics/speakers is on the site.
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malcolmw
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:31 
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The answer to the question posed is that, given human nature, it is an "impossible fantasy". That is unless the European Government "controls" the populace in everything it does.

They don't want to do that, do they?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.
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ed_m
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:16 
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is it policy round here to respond to everything negatively ?
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malcolmw
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:35 
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I'm afraid that experience has taught me that most great "new ideas" about safety are politically inspired nonsense and hence the cynicism. As Paul says, safety is about psychology and hence my reference to human nature. All the listed speakers appear to be technologists of some sort and will probably offer technical solutions.

Anyway, do you think that "Zero deaths on Europe's Roads" is actually possibly without closing them all?

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Icandoit
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 13:13 
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malcolmw wrote:
The answer to the question posed is that, given human nature, it is an "impossible fantasy". That is unless the European Government "controls" the populace in everything it does.

They don't want to do that, do they?

No. They seem a bit out of date in wanting to 'enable zero deaths on Europe´s roads to become a reality' as 'Vision Zero accepts that preventing all accidents is unattainable and unrealistic. Therefore, its goal is to manage them so that they do not cause serious health impairments. The long term objective is to achieve a road transport system which allows for human error but without it leading to serious injury' (from here).
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ed_m
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 13:46 
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malcolmw wrote:
I'm afraid that experience has taught me that most great "new ideas" about safety are politically inspired nonsense and hence the cynicism. As Paul says, safety is about psychology and hence my reference to human nature. All the listed speakers appear to be technologists of some sort and will probably offer technical solutions.

Anyway, do you think that "Zero deaths on Europe's Roads" is actually possibly without closing them all?


it's a headline for ffs.

i actually thought some of the focus of the conference and some of the topics listed were quite encouraging.

i.e. the rather non-technological road design bit:

Quote:
The design of safe roads will form a large part of any road safety strategy. This stream will investigate what advances might be expected in the design of new roads and the software for modeling, simulation and prediction of safe road design. Implementation of safe road design across Europe will need to overcome elements which impede it, such as standardization.

Addressing the improvement of existing roads is far more problematic. Common sense improvements can always be made to re-engineer accident blackspots, to create roadside clear zones, to increase lane widths, to protect cyclists and pedestrians and to improving maintenance. Even simple tasks such as cutting back foliage where it impedes sightlines can assist. What factors impede such common-sense improvements and would an increase in the real and enforceable legal accountability for bad road design and maintenance be a catalyst for change in this area?

* Factors in safe road design
* Software for modeling, simulation and prediction of safe road design
* Creating common geometric standards in road design
* Driver perceptions of road design
* Common sense improvements; lane widths and roadside clear zones
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SafeSpeed
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 15:19 
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I met a leading proponent of Sweden's vision zero at a recent road safety conference.

He claimed that 15 years of this policy had reduced the death rate from 6.0 to 4.7. That's hopeless. 15 years of good policy (aided by technical developments) can easily reduce the death rate by 35%.

I asked him what had gone wrong and he blubbered. I think he expected everyone to tell him how wonderful it was. But, FFS, if your pet scheme gets bad results that's EXACTLY the time you roll up your shirt sleeves and find out why.

When they have finished creating their 'bumper cars' and everyone treats the roads as a bumper car ride at the fairground, and deaths rise they will finally start to wonder where they went wrong.

But I can save them all that trouble. :listenup: Your vision of 'zero' is NOT psychologically sound. If human error has no consequence then people will not be motivated to care about error.

Vision zero is NOT equivalent to a policy of progressive improvement. Some of the elements (e.g. improved road engineering) might be the same, but apart from anything else, vision zero is already a failed policy.

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Toltec
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 15:59 
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ed_m wrote:

Quote:
Even simple tasks such as cutting back foliage where it impedes sightlines can assist.



I found this bit particularly ironic given the recent threads about LAs creating blind bends and junctions.

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Ziltro
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 18:25 
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It is impossible to have zero deaths. Suicides will still happen no matter what.

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Mole
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 01:06 
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toltec wrote:
ed_m wrote:

Quote:
Even simple tasks such as cutting back foliage where it impedes sightlines can assist.



I found this bit particularly ironic given the recent threads about LAs creating blind bends and junctions.



Awwww! Ya beat me to it! :lol:

Anyway, what's to debate? It's just a question of erecting enough cameras isn't it?


...I'll get me coat!
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Toltec
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 22:13 
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Mole wrote:
toltec wrote:
ed_m wrote:

Quote:
Even simple tasks such as cutting back foliage where it impedes sightlines can assist.



I found this bit particularly ironic given the recent threads about LAs creating blind bends and junctions.



Awwww! Ya beat me to it! :lol:

Anyway, what's to debate? It's just a question of erecting enough cameras isn't it?


...I'll get me coat!


Yep - hidden by all that foliage :(

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ed_m
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:22 
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just had a follow up email with the not at all sensationalist subject line:
Reducing road accidents and fatalities NOW!

fab

anyway.. webcast of some of the proceedings available online here:
http://www.safehighwaysofthefuture.com/ ... chive.html

not looked myself.
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Draco
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 05:22 
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Zero death roads? ..............

The law of diminishing returns springs to mind. Unless of course......you tax it! :roll:
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Herbie J
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 01:38 
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ed_m wrote:
is it policy round here to respond to everything negatively ?


No, I think it is possible with better roads,better training,tougher testing(annually) safer vehicles,safer roads,more ambulances per mile,more helecopters,better lighting,comprehensive eye testing every 3 to 5 yrs,veh safety checks at roadside increased dramatically, Zero tollerance to alcohol,zero tollerance to drugs, zero tollerance to anything that can cause the slightest distraction to drivers including chatting to passengers and a mental training and concentration course for every road user, efforts to tag road criminals with technology that prevents them taking to the road which over time would eliminate the driving crimes......Yes i do think it possible but illogical,logistically a nightmare and knowing the human race which has been trying to do the right thing since time began, a complete non starter. Oooops sorry about being negative at the end there. :)
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botach
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 20:59 
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Draco wrote:
Zero death roads? ..............

The law of diminishing returns springs to mind. Unless of course......you tax it! :roll:


And then as everyone slows down to avoid movement tax - traffic stops -and with no motion -there's no accidents - see -problem solved in one - right then ,on to global warming (oops sorry climate change ,as they found that the world does cool down occasionally ,messing up their propaganda ) 8-) 8-)

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