In Gear wrote:
We argued the toss on this back in 2004. JT came up with a fairly workable idea as I recall
safespeedv2 wrote:
I do think it can give the trafpol a better way to help analyse a driver when tugged. However we need better trained cops too as any younger and inexperienced copper cannot know what a well trained or/and experienced enthusiastic driver may know !
In Gear wrote:
And there's the big snag.
You would need this licence on your person 24/7 to produce to us as and when "tugged" How the hell will we know? One solution back in 2004 was some sticker on the number plate.
I think stickers have many problems. I think that, to enable the graduation levels they need defining and then you voluntary go along to the courses and as you complete sections you are awarded the experience and ability level that you have earned. This is then added to your driving license.
Any trafpol that stops you can then see that you are 'qualified' and it is also likely (but not certain considering all the types of human differences), that you will talk and say sensible things that can tell the tagging officer the reasons behind your actions.
They still have the ability to take all (some new) appropriate enforcement. For example a serious query to your actions may warrant a temp suspension of that ability and you go and explain (maybe video evidence) that maybe a panel of experienced traffic driver trainers etc and if a driving enforcement needs to be processed to Court then it will follow current laws.
The gained qualifications build up and the levels placed on the license can be easily seen on your license and so any vehicle that you drive (appropriately).
A trafpol stopping you might waste a few minutes but how re-assuring for them that you now what you are doing and it was OK - or if they question your action either advise strongly, go for a 'query over driving' (new option), or a ticket etc.
Surely better to stop people and find about other things too than have less and less to do with the public. An advanced careful driver will likely see the Trafpol anyway and be ready to stop. After al better drivers make life easier and better mostly.
In Gear wrote:
OK. Fine. But. what if a younger and more novice member of the same family drives that car with a "graduated licence?
Well I guess you have assumed a number of issues here ... the driver hold the license not the car. The licenses have the drivers details on (with or without photo's) if a trafpol is unsure then they can be asked to bring in the qualification certificates to prove the levels earned - 7 days to copshop? That sort of thing ... the car being driven is not part of the equation - in case you are thinking - only drive X car when X level achieved. I think that is wrong as all people use cars differently, so if a powerful car is driven badly or questionably then it can be stopped. We must have encouragement to trust people to be responsible and when they are not enforcement is considered. It can be hard to trust the public I am sure.
In Gear wrote:
Somehow - Germany perhaps has it "right "
with their insurance scheme - whereby the experienced driver pays a surcharge to drive above 80 mph .. else risk no compo and huge costs in case of accident at very high speeds.
I think this is the wrong emphasis. The faster drivers are shown to be more aware and safer, so the insurance companies are 'fleecing'. The excessive and slower ones tend to be the more likely to have accidents, so it should not be the insurance companies that set this cost. How about all people pay a set figure for 3rd party only ( or a dare I say a few (3 say) pence on fuel but after so much fuel is bought, a refund or exemption is given to that person (OK many issues here for later .. ). Just because the insurance co's are the one's that pay out they have ruled how much we are charged but I think MAYBE, it is possible that the Gov should make this a national scheme for 3rd party at least so everyone on the road has a min of insurance. (Sweden has this) I think that to pay higher to driver in a manner that you are better trained for is wrong and the stats would back this concept. There would be a learning cycle while people settle into it but encouragement to drive better should mean several benefits like less costly insurance ! (Experience of Ins Co's has shown they charge extra to those that have accidents that is fair although I am quite sure it has it's faults).
safespeedv2 wrote:
I thoroughly agree good training is an excellent way forward BUT who are doing the training and how can a 'new driver' know if they are being told good things or bad or someone else's specific thoughts ...?
In Gear wrote:
Again - the German model seems to work fine as all receive a very formal classroom experience before practical lessons, It's not perfect.
Plus we HAD the safest roads, whilst we can learn from others, we can easily look back to 15 plus yrs ago and use that knowledge too - we must not forget ! We DID MANY right things and the whole process was working. It has been messed with So much in specific areas that to over emphasis in one area now may have many further far reaching problems. I do agree though that the theory can be improved and learned over several years. Mind if they are really bringing in 500 hrs (they really are taking the mick!) they will need to start at a young age !
In Gear wrote:
But all the same - a very formal classroom requirement of say 7 hours - followed by practical lessons which will include night driving/rural lane driving and experience of fast dual carriageways at the very least. . The course would have to be run by ADI's and its rubric would have to follow a set standard national curriculum
- and be monitored very closely.
I do not see that it would 'have' to be run by ADI's but I do agree obtaining people who can train well is very hard. Plus those that actually truly know what they are talking about is even harder. However a dvd learning aids will help and various trainers for different experiences will also help eg skid pan, fast tracks, high performance, defensive, security and safety etc ... So all the culture of driving that we have grown up with can be well imparted and in a modern manner, PLUS online courses and training facilities too. Even in small groups too with classroom type set ups, many computer progs now easily show the tutor all results etc.
The person taking the courses and learn by themselves at 'home' for the theory things and then go and take the 'practical' advanced lessons as they can afford it.
In Gear wrote:
Drawback - cost of learning and the test would be rather expensive and may be beyond many personal budgets?
One way around the formal classroom lesson may be via introducing cycling into the National Curriculum as regards "road sense/hazard awareness/COAST awareness au Franklin page 55"
So it is done slow and steady, each section being awarded and noted, and when the level is reached it is awarded onto the license.
safespeedv2 wrote:
I am a little concerned how much the 'environment' is being pushed into driving and cars these days. I wonder how far that impacts on driving style and considerations on decisions - even on safety decisions ?
In Gear wrote:
I think costs of living and a recession will influence folk a lot more than "green issues" - especially when weighing up the prices ....
Ah for sure ! However the common sense things as usual will come back in.
In fact hopefully many of the ludicrous things will fall by the wayside as Councils have less money to be so flippant and impractical.
We have heard though from people who (know people) who try to drive in a manner very specifically to help use less fuel and drive so that they are causing others confusion.
sorry for a long post !
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I base the comment on the success which our own Liaison work with schools and colleges has achieved to date. 
