Safe Speed Forums

\per CW - April 9 issue




I am hoping for a full refocus on training up drivers within this report.




So .. what say you lot?

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

While companies should take reasonable steps to ensure the H&S of their employees (this being the law), in the end, it is the person driving the vehicle who is responsible for their actions. If you are tired - don't drive. I do not accept the "my boss bullied me into doing it" argument.

- Either all road accidents should be investigated by the HSE using a no-blame type system so that we learn the true causes of them

or

- None should be investigated by the HSE.

Mr Macintyre is obviously devastated by the loss of his son and may be looking for someone to blame but we do not know the circumstances of the accident and thus cannot comment.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

We can.. T claimed he never saw Jason. He got points on licence and a fine. It seems that jason may have been intent on his cycling . but the driver never saw him.

Under the circumstances .. Jason's father is being very understanding with regard to the driver. He's trying to work out why T never saw him.. and is being very generous minded given his loss in my own opinion here.


Malc. I've been there with Ferdl and then with Vrenchen. I could not ever really put what it felt like into words. We understand more as a result though .. as we realised that blame.. revenge .. anger .. fury .. bitterness.. rather consumed and certainly never helped us heal. I think Jason's father is now on that same recovery curve .. trying to make sense and not condemn the chap who took his son's life .. by act of carelessness or pure misreading or weak risk assessment of the hazard by each party to varying degrees which we will never really know for certain. .. and this comment does not intend any disrespect to Jason. He may have read things incorrectly and not taken account of "potentially lethal numpty" ahead,. We assume reasoned behaviour ..more than we should so perhaps?

I do not know enough of the "tyrant boss from hell" I suspect he exists though from the comments made by my patients. I think some feel they have to wag tails and tug forelocks. I am not and never have been in such a situation .. nor has my wife.

But we accept that this can be possible based on folk we come across and who open souls to us as we just seem to have that effect on folk who meet us in the real tangible world.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Firstly my employer does spend time and money checking licences, online training for drivers and those who score badly get 1 to 1 road training. We have strict maximum overtime limits on the engineering grades.
Vehicles get top quality servicing repair.

Managers is a different story. They get orderred to take on staff all over the place. they are ordered to attend a meeting starting early and finishing late and no one accounts for the 3 hours traveling each way.

I cant recall a serious blame worthey accident with our local fleet. We have as many vehicles as the police who have had many. If the investigation was to go into the risk taking culture excluding emergancey calls they could be in serious grief!

In any crash investigation I believe working hours is investigated. Often the driver is the lone scapegoat when the vehicle owner/opperator should be investigated. However this should be applied to all transport modes. More people should be in court from the rail firms for the corporate failings that caused our dreadfull rail crashes.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Wrong on their part anton.. By the way . I do 12 hours per day. but my work seems to exhilerate to extreme alertness rather than fatigue.


BRAKE are hot on this issue. I agree with them. I agree on many an issue . but not the speed cam thing. They know this. They accept mine and Wildy's hard held stance on this. It speaks volumes to us that they actually accept our wilder point of view here But on fatigue .. etc .. we (as in Team Swiss general) are "at one in mind and spirit"

But we still need to look at the basics for the sales rep all the same,

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

From an 'industry' insiders view it has been a very grey area for a variety of reasons:

The HSE are grossly understaffed and underfunded and just about have the resources to visit every UK place of work once in every 10 years, now add on work related driving. Labour are spending a shed load systematically gutting the HSE, I suspect (and this is just my opinion) that Labour wants an organisation like the OSHA in the US - basically toothless.

There has been a grey area between the police and the HSE - The police (generally) only look as far as 'who is at fault' who can be prosecuted, rarely (though this is starting to change) was the question asked 'was this person driving in relation to work' as such the HSE rarely get informed - how can they investigate what they do not know about ?

As the police have a resource of expertise on RTA's it is more cost effective to let the police investigate and share info with the HSE - this is starting to happen, but slowly.

Where an employee contacts the HSE and lodges compaints or concerns about the way occ driving issues are being dealt with they have several options (bearing in mind that a traffic conviction can get the best result) so they may start and investigation and then hand over to police, VOSA etc.

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

There are loads of regulations, other than RTA, which apply to vehicles used/provided for work. There is a massive grey area where private vehicles are used in connection with business, but even then the employer should check the basics: Is the driver licenced, the vehicle insured/mot'ed etc.
The HSE are well-known [in industry] for being practically useless now. Reduced to being ambulance-chasers.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg291.pdf
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/info/ownvehicle.pdf

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Hey jom/.. you are not quite so wrong here
Onus on RK's employers to check and make sure they have a policy in keeping with ALL laws all the same

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Jomukuk

PUWER doesn't apply to private cars:

Para 62 of HSE L22:

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

I said it was a "grey" area, you say it [PUWER] does not apply.
With "private" car use in business growing, it will soon [it is inevitable] be before a court to decide whether it [PUWER] is applicable to business use of private vehicles.
Personally, I can see a court deciding against an employer. And rightly so. The use of "private" vehicles for business is mainly a cost thing...
Look at the amount of people involved in rta when driving FOR work...

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Fortunately, some employers have been prosecuted and about time too !!

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk