Safe Speed Forums

Hi,

I've just placed a petition onto 10 Downing streets e-petition website to campaign to lower the speed limit on Britain's single track country lanes. The current legal speed on these roads is:-

60mph
It should be at most 40 mph or less.

This current speed limit is madness considering when two vehicles approaching head on round a blind bend at these speeds on these types of roads is a recipe for disaster. I urge you to take the time to sign up to the petition by clicking on the link below and also if you feel as strongly as I do about this, forward this message on to everyone in your e-mail address book. If enough people sign up to this may be we can save some more lives on our roads.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Singletracklimit/

I thank you in advance for signing my petition


Yours Andy

Do you not know that just because a road has a 60mph speed limit it does not mean you have to actually drive that fast?

All those speed limit signs on the entrance and exit to bends are going to cost quite a lot of money, not to mention adding further hazard in the form of solid poles to hit.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

There's no way on this earth I'll be signing that petition! I live on such a road. 100 yards from my house, 20MPH is too fast. 200 yards from my house 40 is fine. 300 yards from my house it straightens out and is raised above the surrounding fields so that you can see. 60 would be fine (probably more to be honest). A mile from my house it's back down to 20 again.

Modifying the limits as the OP suggests would:

1. still not result in traffic moving at a safe speed in some circumstances.
2. be a completely unnecessary restriction in other circumstances.
3. send out the message to drivers that they no longer need to think about their speed because "the authorities" have reviwed the speed limit and have decided what's "safe".

This would be a completely unnecessary restriction to impose principally because it will result in no change to the speed that people actually drive on these roads. Responsible drivers adjust their speed to the road conditions and will not do 60mph around blind bends. Irresponsible drivers will take no notice of any limits.

How many of these 120mph closing speed accidents actually occur?

This is a waste of money which would be better spent on improving driver education and road policing.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Andymusic,

There are plenty of dead-straight single track lanes around (say) Wisbech
or in Lincolnshire where you can see the road for miles in each direction. Why
should they be restricted because roads are bendy elsewhere?

These petitions are annoying - there should always be a counter petition where
you can say that you're against an an idea.

Abercrombie

I agree entirely, Abercrombie!

Thank you for all your comments so far regarding this petition even if they all seem extremely negative, but everyone has to have their own opinions. All I'm asking for is a change in the highway code for these types of road not a total spend on road signs etc. This will help people be more aware on these types of roads of the dangers involved. Also, as my car was written off in just such an accident on one of these roads (it was hit while it was parked up outside my girlfriends house where there is enough room for cars to pass safely) it will help to make sure this sort of careless type of driving is properly dealt with after the accident. The car driver was kind of punished by his stupidity to drive too fast for the road etc. because they had to cut him out of the wreckage and he was lucky to get away with his life. But due to the fact the speed limit on these roads is 60mph, he will not be prosecuted for the accident, which was clearly his fault, as the CPS could not totally prove without a doubt that he was doing more than 60mph after the police investigation but it was clearly obvious that he was(and even if he was doing between 40-60mph this was obviously too fast for the road then for him to lose control of his car). A drop in the speed limit would make sure these accidents were properly dealt with and the driver punished so that he would not do this again. I'm sure he also has the mental effects of remembering now that traveling at that speed and losing control of his car and getting cut out of the wreckage will stay with him for sometime to come, I know it would me if I had been in that situation. I'm sure a lot of us drivers are extremely sensible in the way we approach our driving habits and control of our vehicles, but I'm afraid the inexperienced and younger driver still needs alot of guidance to help them learn that a vehicle can do alot of damage and even kill if not given proper respect and that includes speed on these types of road.

PS. This accident occurred on a straight bit of the road also (where he increased his speed), so it isn't just bends on these roads that are the problem either.

So if the accident was made worse by the fact that he was exceeding the 60mph NSL, then how would a lower limit help exactly? Surely he would just have been breaking it by a greater margin.

I'm afraid that you, and those signing your petition, are falling into the Nu-Labour way of thinking, that the populace needs to be controlled, and the way to do that is by making more rules. Just because something is a rule does not mean that people will comply, and the dafter the rule the less likely total compliance is.

If your motivation here is purely to enable people, in the category of someone you feel has wronged you, to be punished then I suggest that you're somewhat misguided. If you were to do some research, reding through this site for example, then you might have some ideas on how to really effect improvements in road safety.

Regarding your suggestion to change the highway code, that could well be productive, as many people seem ignorant of the implications of the NSL. Presumably you know that this would not make it law; that would require a statutory instrument.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

The lower limit may have stopped the accident happening altogether in the 1st place and secondly when the time came to work out whether he was speeding or not the CPS would have a better case with a bigger margin with the police report to punish the driver as it is obvious these roads were not meant to be driven at 60 mph.

I should have thought that a lower limit would be needed where it isn't obvious that you
are going too fast. Limits aren't necessary where it is obvious.

Stick around, andymusic. You might learn some things here.

Raising the standards of driver education, training, and testing, would lessen the likelihood of such accidents in the first place.

I'd rather he not get a license, which will prevent that mistake. The mistake would also be less likely for every improved driver. Perhaps your faith in humanity's capacity for growth is injured? I'm not that cynical.

People like you don't see declining standards as a problem. I do, and I will never apologize for it.

If, for some strange reason, all the posted speed 'limits' disappeared, yes, I admit, the only people who'd still be driving accident-free after a while, are those who have developed enough observation, assessment, and grace not to need them, plus the amount of grace necessary not to force others to do their observation and assessment for them.

Your measure would increase the number of *induhviduals* who do not truly understand and value good observation, assessment, and grace, not just on the roads, but in life generally. It's part of a downward trend that is also rampant here in Amerika, and if I don't speak and act against it now, I may have to settle for punishing the @r$eh01e who might punish my niece by killing her.

Or, you might have to settle for punishing my niece, for failures of observation, assessment, and grace ... and myself, for failing her education.

I know where your heart lies. I just disagree with your strategy.

Take care of you and yours as best you know how.
*that isn't a mistake*

_________________
The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

How? If he was already exceeding the higher limit, he would just have been exceeding the lower one by more, don't you see?

_________________
Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Andymusic has a lot to learn.

I learnt to drive and spent much of my teenage years driving on such roads that he wants "nannified". The fact that they are full of blind bends and the fact that someone could be hurtling towards you round the next one teaches you to be aware of the little signs that makes your driving "sharper". Things like birds taking to the air suddenly, gaps in hedges wgere you can see the road ahead, shadows changing in the sunlight and obviously at night approaching headlights. If all country lanes had silly low limits on them people would just drive them as if "nothing was going to happen to me" and more accidents would result. Just as there are more accidents on my local town roads now that they have been dropped from NSL to 40MPH. People become complacent at lower limits and their observation skills drop.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Also, nothing improves your reaction times more than someone coming round a blind bend at a speed that they obviously won't be able to stop at and you both having to "taste the verge".....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Off topic I admit, but

As an elderly Land Rover driver (the vehicle, not me) being confronted by another elderly Land Rover coming towards you on a single track road can also be "Interesting"

The knowledge that "He" cannot steer in a streight line either can be quite stimulating. Alnog with the knoledege that the Land Rover adage "The crumple zone is on the other car" doesnt work if you hit another Land Rover!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I passed through the traffic related to a farm sale recently, which consisted mainly of old 4x4s going both ways on a single track lane.

Clearly none were accustomed to having to give way to other vehicles, so there were quite a number of rather baffled stand-offs.



Oh, and back on topic. There are innumerable "minor" roads where it is entirely safe to do at least 60. Dorset has a couple of A-road-standard minor roads which connect towns; presumably these would be 40 limited? Oh, fab....

I'm sorry your car was written off by a driver on a minor road, Andymusic, but as they say, hard cases make bad laws. I commute 60 miles a day, predominantly on minor roads, pretty rapidly, and I've yet to crash into anything more than the odd bird.

A few idiot drivers should not be allowed to restrict the majority's freedom of travel.

I will not sign such a petition. Look, it's common sense. I've driven on single track roads like the road from Lochailort to Arisaig and the road from Ashness Bridge to Watendlath. If you to do 60mph on those roads, you're either mad or suicidal. Or possibly both.

One rule about single track roads is that you may NOT use a passing place as a space to park your car.

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Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.

I've got to be honest, I'm quite amazed at the attitudes on this forum considering it's called "Safe Speed Forum". One attitude was "even if the speed was lower, how would that have prevented the accident?" well, if over a period of time drivers got it into their head that 40mph was the legal speed to be done on these types of roads (re-education and education) then, like we all know about other speed limits, this will be in the back of our minds when traveling down this particular road. Unfortunately, due to the fact the speed limit is still the same right now, I'm waiting for the same accident to happen again, I'm not so sure I'll be so charitable the next time it happens. Another opinion was that "you learn to avoid this problem and that problem etc. etc.", trouble is, some people don't learn this and are just quite happy to go along oblivious of the hazards they are encountering and get through more by luck than judgement, until their luck runs out! I'm sure you are all safe experienced drivers who never or hardly ever make a mistake but pushing the boundaries of speed and pushing your luck will eventually end in disaster.

"I will not sign such a petition. Look, it's common sense. I've driven on single track roads like the road from Lochailort to Arisaig and the road from Ashness Bridge to Watendlath. If you to do 60mph on those roads, you're either mad or suicidal. Or possibly both."

I'm afraid there are "boy racers" out there that are neither mad nor suicidal but just hungry for the feeling they get when they speed and push the limits of their driving on just such roads, but it's the innocent that pay with their lives in these situations. It's very sad.

Please explain exactly how putting up metal disks on poles at the side of the road with 40 on them will stop boy racers from behaving like boy racers.

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

It seems to me that you are quite happy with the status quo and the unneccessary loss of life on our roads!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't say to stick metal disks on poles up with 40 on, did I?????????????? Just implement it in the highway code as a measure to help generally make everybody aware of the dangers of these roads and help stop the accidents. I know it's not a complete solution to our problems of accidents, but it will help!