Safe Speed Forums

That would be the 'OP' or Original Poster ... that's me

I understand your concerns and serious interest in Road Safety, after your tragic situation.

With regard to this Consultation I am proposing to bring in a number of areas, of Road Safety :
Inattention is being seriously ignored and people are being KSI (killed or seriously injured),
Frustration which can lead to many direct and subsequent behaviours,
Then we have many road user aids to be guided by (COAST, POWER etc etc) Which may help to show the possibilities of what we all could 'become' with appropriate education and guidance.
The damaging effects of current policy, and as predicted that SI figures will climb and they have BUT ALSO that pedestrian and cyclist figures both in victims and as causers of accidents too.
Speed Cameras - why they cannot work, and how they are not working, but are changing (for the worse), the behaviours of, and manner on, the roads. The serious and detrimental effects are making road users worse, and these effects are becoming ingrained in some sectors of the road user communities.
The reality of lowering the speed limits have already had a horrifying effect on HGV's and car interactions especially, reduce cars to lower speeds is ignoring many of their own figures, (and people will suffer even die, because they think their own idealist preconceptions have some basis in Road Safety).
(We need to reform a Road User Group Collective of specialists & consultants to ensure that the very best advice is sought and each Policy is properly considered before Anything is promoted to the Rule of the Road.)

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I think what Claire is trying to say and excuse me if I am a little blunt here because I have had a drink or two and I do become blunt at this time of night, ....is that .....every one is different, every one does things at a different pace to the next person, whether it be reading a book, walking down the road or driving a car. Everyone has a different comfort zone for any action. So some people find it easy to move along at a different pace than the next person, there is nothing wrong with this because everyone is different. What may seem fast to one person will seem slow to another. Relationships, writing , reading, walking, talking,eating a sandwich,painting a wall, no matter what it is,everyone has a different pace to the next person.. No one criticises another for speaking fast or slow, walking fast or slow, reading fast or slow but driving is one of those daily actions that does come in for critisism. We all criticise the next person for driving too fast or too slow but at the end of the day (bad saying, I know) everyone is different and everyone has a different comfort zone. Some people have faster reaction times than others and hence can stop quicker than others.It is not in the nature of human beings to be told by any one how to live your life. So if someone says , you should be doing that faster/ slower than you are doing it it is going to cause friction, This is why some people are better at doing some jobs/ functions than others, we are ALL different. To judge one persons performance by comparing it to another is WRONG.This is why setting speed limits to cater for the slower members of society is wrong. Speed limits should be set as a guide for the road in ideal conditions for good drivers but not neccessarily as a "target" speed for everyone. So long as these speeds are not exceeded in ideal conditions, by the better drivers, there should be no problem. What is WRONG is when these speed limits are set to cater for the poorer drivers in poor conditions. This is like saying to someone you MUST take a week to read that book or a day to paint that wall when you know that you can do it comfortably in half the time and do the job well.
So you then get people who are capable of doing a good job in a certain time, idling their time away, becoming bored and at the end of the day(same crap phrase) doing the job badly and not really paying attention...so mistakes can and do happen.

What we need with road speed limits is them to be set (as they once were) at sensible limits which satisfy the majority of drivers (the 85percentile) BUT emphasising to the poorer driver that this is NOT a target that you MUST drive at but with practice and a little improvement, a limit that you COULD achieve in ideal conditions one day.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Now what was it you were drinking ?

Well put.
'Fit for purpose' is so important in every area of life. Ensuring that drivers are 'basically' 'so' is also crucial to their and everyone's safety on the roads.
The simplistic attitude to lowering road safety to the lowest common dominator, through this (mostly) singular course, (predominately), makes their policies totally unfit for purpose too - of course.

Yep the concentration on set speeds as the all singing, all dancing, one stop shop answer for road safety is horrifying.
As Paul said once, "one day they may find themselves being sued, for mis-guiding the public, for making drivers & riders, 'unfit for purpose' due to their, inability to govern and rule properly."

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I take your point, and am sorry if what I said was abrupt. I've tried creating questionnaires and it's very difficult not to influence the reader. It may be that there is lack of coordination between those responsible for identifying risk and control; I'd rather see specifics given some future commitment, and certainly over a shorter timeframe than 10 years. I'm not a fan of gaining permission via questionnaire.

May i suggest, though, that the Safe Speed submission is made in the form of questions, rather than statements, please?

The full Consultation contained answers at the 'back' that whilst they preferred that you answered it was not a hard and fast rule. They were keener to hear our thoughts and input than worry too much about if we answered things as they would have preferred.

I had hoped to produce information sheets then go through all the questions, and refer back to the document information sheets, however I was so terribly pushed for time that although I got some good info doc sheets done and got some questions answered, it was not as much as I had hoped to produce, and nothing like as presentable as I would have expected to send out, but it was basic and covered most aspects.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Posts relating to Council & Benefit Forms I have moved HERE to General Chat under Council & Benefit Forms.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

From the Questions -first on list
" Do you agree that our road safety strategy should take account of wider issues, such as climate change?"
NOW - don't that say something about the aims of the resultsof the questionairree .It'sabout making Britains roads SAFER - SO WTF has climate change got to do with safety -

I smell a rodent ,bit larger than a mouse ,with a loooong tail -often found in canals and river banks .( And BTW -it's not a beaver /vole or mink).

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I did complete a good reply to this and they I hope read it carefully. I found some very interesting info too on targets and how the targets can end up being the purpose of the projects entire aims, as the original and true focus becomes lost to the target.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

If the climate changes causes this country to become warmer we will have less snow and ice, so there will be fewer accidents.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

NO - driving safely has nothing to do with time of year . Driving depends on skills ,and application of those skills apprioprate to the time of year/road conditions .If you feel that with a bit of ice/snow around that you are not safe -then go get the skills - me , I've driven in UK blizzard conditions ( didn't want to -was forced to do so for the safety of my family-at the time I'd the choice -turn round and the roads behind me were closing ,or go on and take my chances ,and gamble my skills against the conditions .I'm still here - so I'd say I made the right choice,and my skills overcame the snow )-I'd adapted my driving to the conditions,and as a bonus really knew the road ,and picked up a passenger who went off the road .Not boasting - just stating facts .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

. I never said it was. I said it had to do with the weather. An accident statistics bear that out. There is a certain baseline of unavoidable risk when driving, much of it due to the incompetence of other road users. That baseline is higher in winter if only because so few other drivers are skilled in winter driving. The fact that you use the phrase "gamble my skills against the conditions"is very telling. Do you regard summer commuting as a gamble?

I am perfectly competent at driving in blizzard conditions provided the everyone else is driving correctly. But when you get behind someone who thinks that breaking sharply for corners is a sensible winter driving technique things get much harder. Which is why I consider a comfortable chair and a good book or a television the best promoters of safety on the road when it is snowing.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I agree with DCB, winter driving in heavy snow isn't always about trying to overcome the conditions, although driving in heavy snow does demand high levels of concentration and a certain amount of skill, often the hardest part of getting from A to B is negotiating your way around other road users who are determined to skid around and make hard work of even the slightest gradient or even a flat peice of tarmac.

I used to do a lot of miles in rural Shropshire, Staffordshire and Worcestershire in the late seventies/early eighties when we used to have some pretty heavy snow falls (1983 was a classic year, we had minus 25 degrees round here and the snow lay around for weeks) and don't remember having any problems getting around, especially once you were out of the bigger towns but a couple of years ago I needed to go and help friends who lived about 4 miles away on a friday afternoon. It wasn't snowing at the time although it had been for most of the day. I got about 1 mile from my house and because the traffic was hardly moving, i decided to return home. The whole two mile (or less) journey took about a hour and that was on flat urban streets.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Very little in road safety procedure terms. They are trying to amalgamate the two and then condemn those that produce any co2, and tie that in with road safety which is wrong.
They are separate - if co2 is even an issue which is a whole different issue. If we believe in a warmer climate then we might see a bit more rain, wind and maybe a little more sunshine - if any of it is to be believed - another issue ...

You were of course adding people then enable the heavier car to achieve better grip then.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

The thing that continually appals me when driving in winter is the reluctance of drivers to increase the separation distance. It is quite common to see see lines of vehicles travelling at 20mph with less than a car length between them.

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

But doesn't this all stem from the fact that this government is trying to persuade every driver that "safe" driving is driving within a speed limit? it's the same in bad visibility, slow driving with no headlights and everyone believes themselves to be driving "safely".

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

And not just in winter


As someone at the coalface I can say it's both. I see nurses and doctors, as examples, being pulled every which way but in other areas, (which I can't name for obvious reasons), there are people on a good earner who do nothing, and I do mean nothing! (Wish I could name and shame).

I know where we could make a big saving!

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.