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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 15:51 
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Hopes that speed cameras will prevent accidents took a blow this week at one location.

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/4439440.WANSTEAD__Neighbours__shock_at_horror_death_crash/

Wanstead paper wrote:
WANSTEAD: Neighbours' shock at horror death crash

7:40am Tuesday 16th June 2009
By Daniel Binns »


NEIGHBOURS in a busy street have spoken of their shock after two teenagers were killed in a car crash outside their homes.

Households in Aldersbrook Road, Wanstead, were woken by the "loud thud" of Sunday morning's smash, in which a Lexus smashed head-first into a tree, killing two and severely injuring the car's driver and a third passenger.
The crash happened just metres from a "speed kills" sign, and only 100 metres from a speed camera.

Police have not revealed the identities of those who died, but they are believed to be two 18-year-old Asian students from Manor Park.
The car's driver and other passenger are said to be in a stable condition in hospital.

A 19-year-old man apparently turned himself in to police following the crash.
He was arrested and then bailed until September.

Initially police said only one car was involved, but the arrest has sparked rumours in Aldersbrook Road that the crash happened after a race between two cars.

Meanwhile, friends and relatives of those who died have been paying their respects at the crash site, along with residents from the surrounding area.

One of them, 57-year-old Pat Bennett, said he had been "horrified" by what had happened.
He said: "I just heard this loud thud in the middle of the night, and just after there were sirens all over the place.
"You hear sirens quite a lot on this road because it's a through-route for the emergency services. But when I found out the two men had died I was just shocked, horrified, especially when you consider they were aged just 18.
"Crashes are quite common here. A few weeks ago a car went through a bollard a bit further up. They were speeding but they got away with it.
"There's a lot of speeding but not much is done about it."

Lewis Mayo, 54, lives opposite the site of the crash.

He said: "I was reading in my bedroom when it happened, I had the window open because it was a hot night so I heard everything.
"I heard the car hit the kerb, then rustle through the grass and then the thud when it hit the tree.
"But there was no squeal of breaks, no skidding, no horns, nothing you would expect like that, so I was very surprised - and shocked - when I found out two of them had died. It didn't sound like they were going that fast.
"I came downstairs and immediately there were a lot of people coming out of their homes, and a lot of cars had stopped in the road to help.
"I heard one of them screaming. He was very distressed and wasn't coherent. But within minutes the emergency services had arrived.
"It's very sad.

"I've lived here for 24 years and we've had dozens of accidents along here. The residents association has been campaigning for years for there to be more traffic controls like speed cameras.
"But we're not even sure the speed camera here works, I've seen police cars race by at speed and it never seems to flash or go off."

A neighbour of one of teenagers who died, from Manor Park, said: "They were just eighteen. Eighteen. His mother is mad with grief. He had two other brothers, and he was the smallest.
"I watched him grow up from when he was little. We are all very upset."
One of the teenager's funerals was held yesterday, and the other is due to be held today.

The family have said they do not wish to talk to the media.

A spokeswoman for Redbridge Council, which maintains the road, said: "Aldersbrook Road is a strategic route for the emergency services and physical traffic calming measures such as road humps would not be supported as they would affect attendance times to emergency incidents in the area."

"There is no recent history of serious personal injury accidents in this location. The “speed kills” signs are part of the council’s borough wide road safety campaign to warn motorists about the outcome of high speeds.

"As soon as we have further information on the likely cause of this accident, we will discuss the matter with the Police Accident Investigation Officers to see what actions can be considered to improve road safety in the area."

A spokesman for the London Safety Camera Partnership (LSCP) said: "For operational reasons we cannot release site specific data, but the camera at this site is in full working condition."

Anyone with any information on the crash, which happened at around 2.20am on Sunday, is urged to call the Chadwell Heath Collision Investigation Unit on 8597 4874.


A question for the SCP people: how do speed cameras stop accidents?

The Wanstead residents think that a camera that works would be the answer!
Perhaps some COAST would be a better way than the present inaction! Any chance that the FRIENDS of the deceased will learn from this experience and slow down for the cameras and drive appropriately? Or will they simply carry on regardless, thinking that they are invincible?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 16:44 
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4 people in a car, 2am. significant collision with a tree.
Stolen car? drink drive?
Why would they slow down for a working speed camera? They didnt slow down for a tree

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 17:43 
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anton wrote:
Why would they slow down for a working speed camera? They didnt slow down for a tree


Oh yes they did :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 18:26 
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Sort of true!

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 18:38 
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I was told several years ago by a copper, and the story was repeated to me again by another copper that...

on the A127 is a 40 stretch, it was the first restricted part between southend and M25, but the have since put a stupid 50 limit in, but I digress.

Seemingly, the first copper I was talking to (at an advanced course) said that while attending what turned out to be a fatal RTA, a resident that lives along by the side of the road came out to him and said, that he had lived there for 20 years and not seen a single accident untill the camera was installed. It appears that people were cruising along, probably still doing circa 70 in the 40, then see the camera and anchor up and either loose control or someone runs into the back of them. The stupid thing is, is that there is a set of lights a few hundred yards further up the road. All they would need to do is to hide a speed sensor in the road that turns the lights red if you go over the Thought Police's predetermined prefered speed.

The other copper I spoke to recently (after giving a looonnngg whitness statement about something I didn't see) said that people are crashing when the do an emergency brake when they see the camera, and that the stupid 50 limit was so they are going slower prior to the limit change :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Why not just remove the poxy camera instead?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 18:53 
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Because cameras save lives don't they????.....ooops sorry dreaming again... ;-)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 14:11 
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How utterly miserable that the brainwashing of 'speed' as the answer, seems to be getting so ingrained into society that so few seem to realise that the camera itself, can have a bad effect on driver behaviour, and that 'speed' is considered as the ONLY underlying factor, as to whether they were actually driving SAFELY or not !
They may have swerved for a cat or something.
The arrested & released chap might have been doing 'something', but there seems little (evidence to go on) indication, that he was in another car. But if he were and braked hard as is implied near this camera, (and most all camera locations), the car behind might have swerved to avoid him (none good driving but who is to tell them this ! :( ).

I think if I were the Council I would put in CCTV (temporary) for a yr and see what evidence I could gain when accidents happen, just to start with. All Accident investigators reports collated to see if there are any trend patterns that could be solved.
I would remove the camera immediately.
I would question if the lights are playing a negative role and see if an alternative existed.
I would see if line of sight along the road presented any particular 'sudden vision of hazards' that may cause sudden reactions and so accidents.
and more I dare say ....

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