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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:44 
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Thinking about these police camera action type programs, why does the police helicopter always hover in the clouds relaying information to traffic police on the ground during the chase when if the helicopter just came down low, so the mad driver sees there’s chopper cover, there is a very good chance they would know it’s 'game over' and stop?

If it’s too dangerous to fly low for long it doesn’t matter, you have only to do it briefly along a safe stretch of road so that the driver is aware you’re onto him. I know it’s doable because I see the air ambulance doing some incredible manoeuvres to and from my hospital complex all the time - and the occasional Chinook :bow:

AFAIK no-one has escaped when the chopper is involved, (complete with night vision & heat seek etc.), and we all know this. Of course you’re bound to get some who will still think they can outwit a helicopter but my idea is surely worth a try and has to be safer than for everyone involved than this dangerous chase they seem to favour. :?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:47 
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At night with a car engine revving high and the adrenaline pumping, would the driver see the helicopter unless it was right in the road in front?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:54 
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They would if they used the night sun I think ;)

Add: If there’s something a few hundred yards in front of you, and about as far up in the air, I think it would be impossible to miss. Have I been watching too many Hollywood movies? :)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:57 
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Chopper pilots have to remain above a "dead man's curve". That is they must always be above a certain speed, or above a certain height (or a combination of both) such that it can be landed relatively safely (a la autogyro) in the event of catastrophic engine failure. That's why you usually see them fairly high up and circling, especially over populated areas.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 14:09 
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Ah, gotcha! You’ve killed my thread but cheers for that Steve. :D I see them doing exactly what you've said over the hospital. They also do some nifty manoeuvres, as I’ve mentioned, but I guess that’s out of necessity and an acceptable amount of risk. :roll:

It's a shame there isn’t a way of letting the mad driver know it’s above him; I think it would have worked. :(

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 14:17 
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Big Tone wrote:
It's a shame there isn’t a way of letting the mad driver know it’s above him; I think it would have worked. :(

They could 'bite back' by dazzling the drivers with laser pointers :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 14:28 
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Steve wrote:
Big Tone wrote:
It's a shame there isn’t a way of letting the mad driver know it’s above him; I think it would have worked. :(

They could 'bite back' by dazzling the drivers with laser pointers :D


That would infringe their human rights :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 14:33 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Steve wrote:
Big Tone wrote:
It's a shame there isn’t a way of letting the mad driver know it’s above him; I think it would have worked. :(

They could 'bite back' by dazzling the drivers with laser pointers :D


That would infringe their human rights :roll:
Best shut them up for good then :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 15:41 
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Big Tone wrote:
Best shut them up for good then :twisted:

Image


Just about what I thought of when you mentioned 'heat seek' earlier :)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 15:45 
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Just love the image ! :)
However using an Apache is rather expensive to say the least - disproportionate enforcement springs to mind!

However any use of a laser (apart from being potentially blinding) might see the rapid deployment of one of the very handy guns ! (As laser guided missiles are a BIG issue). ;)

What an amazing aircraft though ! I had two fly and hover over my land and that was amazing - caught it on camera - for fun :)
Then there was the Euro fighter 'playing' with the 'target' :D and the F15's ! :D

To get serious though ! If they want to catch someone and they show the heli then if there (were by chance) no local cops to hand then the chaps run and by the time the foot patrols catch up they are gone.
There is a big demand for heli use so they could easily be pulled off one job onto another and so then I bet some do 'get away'.
Then some crims have hidden very well indeed in barns and things and get very well hidden so they are not fool-proof.
I did like the distance - eye-in-sky approach so they can co-ordinate control from above and advise all best action. that was an A12 incident and was well managed and executed. However when they start 'chasing' someone for let's say several mph over limit then that is a worrying trend as it would still be deemed disproportional IF otherwise safe driving noted - THEN if a more distant vision of heli to road user was observed I bet that person would slow 'behave better' - not even any need for any chase ....
I think some enforcement bodies have Forgotten how much just the presence of Police counts - most people behave upon site and even just fear a stop & chat.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 16:15 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Then some crims have hidden very well indeed in barns and things and get very well hidden so they are not fool-proof.

You say that but I was told, (didn’t see it myself), of a criminal who outrun the cops but a thermal camera picked up on him as his body heat gave him away from where he was resting on a metal stairway inside or some such.

Maybe there’s life left in this thread yet. Just gotta think of a way of letting the bad driver know the chopper is above. It can’t be that difficult. There’s got be a way :scratchchin:

:idea: How about a moving LED message, in mirror image, at the front of the police car saying “There’s a chopper above you now!”. Hang on though - maybe would that be too much of a distraction; like having to keep looking at the speedo :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 17:35 
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Police helicopters, being 'civilian' for aviation purposes, are not permitted to fly below 500', or 1000' + auto clear over built up areas.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 18:11 
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I thought I was in Afghanistan the other night. I was turning into my road when I spotted an Apache slowly moving along above the houses!

I do live on a regular training run from Middle Wallop to Dean Hill, however. :)

I get Chinooks over during the day and something else at night (which i can't see as it's dark). Quite good for aircraft spotters, really.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 19:57 
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RobinXe wrote:
Police helicopters, being 'civilian' for aviation purposes, are not permitted to fly below 500', or 1000' + auto clear over built up areas.

Gives an idea of how good the camera zoom must be.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 23:12 
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Ziltro wrote:
RobinXe wrote:
Police helicopters, being 'civilian' for aviation purposes, are not permitted to fly below 500', or 1000' + auto clear over built up areas.

Gives an idea of how good the camera zoom must be.
Not to mention what else the Government must have at their disposal Image I once read that whatever gets filtered down to us is at least 10 years behind what they are using.

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 00:32 
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Big Tone wrote:
I once read that whatever gets filtered down to us is at least 10 years behind what they are using.


But apparently, NOT in Afghanistan! :x

Families are buying kit to send out to their boys, because the usual issue is so dire.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 01:01 
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I can assure you that parents are not, nor need they, send out advanced surveillance optics to Afghanistan.

Do we have a winner in the thread creep awards? :P

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 02:44 
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I think the thread is hoovering :) ;)

I do think that it is utterly disgraceful that any of the forces are short of anything they need ! Boots, heli's etc ! Right equipment and so on.

Is this an ongoing reflection that the Government is trying to short cute everything from road safety to defending the realm ?

If you put up LED signs I think they will place up "It's behind you - yep THAT heli" :) whether it is there or not ! The cheap route ?

Seriously though - the thought that they are using helicopters to deter specific speeds on a road is nothing short of madness !
It is totally disproportionate. When the Police go after serious criminals like Bank Robbers with helicopters it is reasonable as when they get away another serious crime might ensue and people injured. A proportionate approach as this can happen many times over and as long as used appropriately money well spent.
There does not seem to be anyone observing if they get this out of hand but we would like to think they can be 'trusted' without the need for over-observations, and more management !
Control and over control is so easy to implement, but the trust and respect that gets lost in the process, is a long and slow process to regain !

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 07:32 
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They have to use helicopters to film speeding cars so they can sell the film to TV companies. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:23 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
I think the thread is hoovering :) ;) !


Ans sucking a lot of garbage :evil:

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