Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sun Nov 01, 2020 01:39

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Young driver training
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 15:22 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:14
Posts: 9
Hi there

I saw on the news today that Lewis Hamilton has added his name to a young driver (14-16 year old) scheme in Surrey which brought back to me a thought that I had a while back.

Using penalties and legislation (as is always their way), this moronic government have attempted to prevent young drivers from killing themselves by forcing them to drive according to the accepted model but they fail to understand that young people are rebellious and experimental by nature and will never fall into line.

If we accept this, then we are able to move forward in terms of young people's safety on the roads. If we analyse what happens in the majority of road accidents involving young people I'm fairly sure that it will be clear that the main cause is lack of driving skill and inexperience leading to loss of control. If that is the case then why can't we just start teaching them to drive properly at 15 so that they are ready - and when I say teaching them to drive, I mean really teaching them to drive - backwards, sideways and any which way that will help them appreciate what a car is really capable of in both a positive and negative sense.

As the father of 3 boys, the oldest of which is 15, I have already been teaching him to drive and hope to get him into some kind of racing at 16 in the hope that he'll get some appreciation of a car at speed before he gets on the road. Wouldn't it be great if all youngsters had that kind of opportunity.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 17:43 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 16:34
Posts: 4923
Location: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place
:clap: Nice post!

You're right of course, it's what I call the madness of youth and I was no different.

I may get shot down in flames now but I personally would go further and include such things as showing images and video footage of accidents and the aftermath. I'd also include visits to hospitals where they can see what happens for themselves and talk to victims and perpetrators who don't always get off unharmed. (I know there's always a rich supply of them :roll: ).

Training is everything and I'm sorry but I know from personal experience that although we know 'it' goes on out there the youth, (especially), still think it won't happen to them or cause it.

Good post and, if I may say, a fine example of a caring father taking responsibility for your lads education in a deadly field :) I bet it aint been easy though? ;)

Oh, a question if I may... Have you been telling/teaching them Speed Kills or to use an appropriate speed for the conditions?

:welcome:

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 23:00 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7361
Location: Highlands
:welcome: ICSD
ICSD wrote:
... ... forcing them to drive according to the accepted model but they fail to understand that young people are rebellious and experimental by nature and will never fall into line.

Young drivers need room to make mistakes and importantly learn from them, we cannot achieve, the lovely concept that all can be on the roads 100% perfectly capable, what we can do is give them good 'tools' and show them how to use them, and then remind them often and regularly.
ICSD wrote:
... I'm fairly sure that it will be clear that the main cause is lack of driving skill and inexperience leading to loss of control. If that is the case then why can't we just start teaching them to drive properly at 15 so that they are ready - and when I say teaching them to drive, I mean really teaching them to drive - backwards, sideways and any which way that will help them appreciate what a car is really capable of in both a positive and negative sense.
Safe Speed Campaigns against the use of Speed Camera's as it is not teaching responsibility nor road safety it merely tries to make all people drive / ride at a specific numeric value. It teaches nothing about driving/riding to conditions or improving road users skills, knowledge, abilities and attitude. If you had to teach your children one thing then it would be to show them how to ride or drive so that they can STOP in the distance that they can see to be CLEAR. Children learn a lot about road safety from walking and riding bikes but there is so much more when they start to drive or ride motorbikes.
ICSD wrote:
... hope to get him into some kind of racing at 16 in the hope that he'll get some appreciation of a car at speed before he gets on the road.
That's sound like an excellent idea, as there are often many youngsters opportunities at the race track from very young ages. Talking about driving when you drive can teach masses too of course.
I would like to see young driver / rider clubs that help encourage and guiding good skills to help improved knowledge and abilities.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 15:31 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:14
Posts: 9
Big Tone wrote:
:clap:

Oh, a question if I may... Have you been telling/teaching them Speed Kills or to use an appropriate speed for the conditions?

:welcome:


We haven't got to serious speed yet, but when I'm driving I always tell my kids that it's safety first and speed second and to never drive beyond their capabilities.

I always think that appropriate speed is more than just conditions but I guess that's a discussion for another thread - my real problem with current trends is that we're heading towards non-cognitive driving and standards are dropping as a result. If you're bored at the wheel you won't drive well - fact!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 23:19 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9273
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
:welcome: ICSD -for newdrivers , my advice is simply what I learned ,( and at times almost the hard way) - don't find out what speed you can't drive round a corner at first time off - that way you end up in ditch ( and if like me you lived out in the sticks -was a long way home ).
Start from a comfortable speed and work up -that way you learn how to corner ,handle a car etc .If your fortunate to get your hands on an OLD rear wheel drive car (Moggy 1000 or equivalent)- that's the place to really LEARN about car handling and control.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 23:53 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7361
Location: Highlands
ICSD wrote:
We haven't got to serious speed yet, but when I'm driving I always tell my kids that it's safety first and speed second and to never drive beyond their capabilities.
Very wise and sound advice.
ICSD wrote:
I always think that appropriate speed is more than just conditions
If you :
Drive so that you can always stop (on your side of the road) in the distance that you can see to be clear.
Clear means free from all hazards of every nature.

If you can drive so that you manage risk always to a low level then you will be safe.

By keeping to the following rules also (we can go into them as slow or as fast as you are interested in doing so)
C - Concentration, Consideration, Courtesy
O - Observation
A - Attention, Anticipation, Awareness, Attitude
S - Space for Safety & Spacial Awareness
T - Time to React, Time to Travel (for your journey) & Two Second Gap (between you and the vehicle in front).
ICSD wrote:
...my real problem with current trends is that we're heading towards non-cognitive driving and standards are dropping as a result. If you're bored at the wheel you won't drive well - fact!
There is research by Al Gullon showing that drivers with 'The Absent Minded Professor Syndrome' (lack of concentration and attention) leads to accidents. This is shown in the figures too as Frustration and Inattention are the two main causes of accidents.
Driving / Riding is a mixture of skills, knowledge, ability and judgment and the constant desire to improve and learn.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 13:27 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:14
Posts: 9
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Driving / Riding is a mixture of skills, knowledge, ability and judgment and the constant desire to improve and learn.


Talking of riding, everyone should ride a bike at some stage in their life - that sense of vulnerability and the necessity to be aware of so many more things than you are in a car is a fantastic education.

I'm sure that I'm a better driver when I have a bike in the garage!

Anyway, back to the main point - how can we atain better training for young drivers so that they experience and learn to master a car's limits before they get their licenses. And could Safe Speed put its name to this?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 01:26 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7361
Location: Highlands
Brian Gregory wrote:
> For me the key thing is that safe driving is made up of five components, summaries by the mnemonic OAPE:
> O for Observation: observing developments in the immediate & relevant proximate driving environment
> A for Anticipation: anticipating developing & likely hazards in the driving environemnt which is immediately proximate & relevant
> P for Planning: plannning a response to these perceived & anticipated hazards
>E for Execution: executing a driving plan to accommodate & adapt to those hazards so as to minimise one's risk exposure (& ideally that of other road users' also)

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 01:39 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7361
Location: Highlands
I have various thoughts and ideas in the pipeline and hope some may be fully developed and then be published ... I would like to see various training aids introduced. When people are more aware they can be ready to learn second and question and ask the what, why, when & how. Making people question and understand how to improve is key to helping people want to improve by showing them first that it is a known and well understood skill.
Once people have the respect of others they are more ready to listen and learn.
With so much technology about this is an area ready to be developed.
Simple processes like info stickers are good too and helpful reminders without being over 'forceful'.
The ideal is to have all road users aspire to achieving good road user behaviours.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 06:48 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7361
Location: Highlands
Also let's not forget (or become too 'scared') that our driving test has traitionally enabled people to learn at an appropriate pace suitable for their abilities and ensure that when they go onto the roads 'solo' they are fully safe and ready to take to the roads.
It would be wrong to assume that people have to know and understand everything before they are 'on the roads'. People only need to know enough to be safe and then as they gain valuable and crucial experience and confidence then they are ready to learn and understand more.
As that confidence grows people absorb more, because they have the experience to understand and appreciate it.
It is this 2nd / 3rd etc stage of learning that at the moment is self encourage usually by interest or passion. If we can help to encourage that interest and passion then more will want to learn, when people are told they have to learn, often as not they turn off to the whole idea, so constructing suitable learning platforms, and procedures takes a lot of care, consideration and a total comprehension appreciation of psychology and 'life learning' skills. Cognitive Therapy where people can learn for them selves is an interesting area as people learn by themselves and at their own pace, and has helped more people recently than nearly all other methods.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 14:08 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:14
Posts: 9
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Also let's not forget (or become too 'scared') that our driving test has traitionally enabled people to learn at an appropriate pace suitable for their abilities and ensure that when they go onto the roads 'solo' they are fully safe and ready to take to the roads.
It would be wrong to assume that people have to know and understand everything before they are 'on the roads'. People only need to know enough to be safe and then as they gain valuable and crucial experience and confidence then they are ready to learn and understand more.
As that confidence grows people absorb more, because they have the experience to understand and appreciate it.
It is this 2nd / 3rd etc stage of learning that at the moment is self encourage usually by interest or passion. If we can help to encourage that interest and passion then more will want to learn, when people are told they have to learn, often as not they turn off to the whole idea, so constructing suitable learning platforms, and procedures takes a lot of care, consideration and a total comprehension appreciation of psychology and 'life learning' skills. Cognitive Therapy where people can learn for them selves is an interesting area as people learn by themselves and at their own pace, and has helped more people recently than nearly all other methods.


I have to say that I believe that the current and past driver training/test is wholly inadequate. It allows poor/uninterested drivers on to the roads and doesn't truly prepare drivers for what they will face.

To suggest that self-teaching should take place post test is simply not enough as that self-teaching could easily lead to an accident - far better that limits are tested and found in a controlled environment.

Every young driver thinks they're a driving god - a healthy dose of off road/track driving would soon teach them that they're not - especially if they were trying to match lap times of more experienced drivers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 15:17 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 16:34
Posts: 4923
Location: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place
ICSD wrote:
I have to say that I believe that the current and past driver training/test is wholly inadequate. It allows poor/uninterested drivers on to the roads and doesn't truly prepare drivers for what they will face.

To suggest that self-teaching should take place post test is simply not enough as that self-teaching could easily lead to an accident - far better that limits are tested and found in a controlled environment.

Every young driver thinks they're a driving god - a healthy dose of off road/track driving would soon teach them that they're not - especially if they were trying to match lap times of more experienced drivers.
Couldn't agree more! This is where I give you full credit for your actions. There’s only one problem, something we’ve all said at some point, it’s not yourself or your son you have to be so worried about but all the other mad buggers on the road! I can’t guarantee that some goof won’t wipe me out tomorrow, especially when I’m on the motorbike, no matter how good I am or think I am.

It makes me cringe to think back to the 70s where you could reach 17 years old, get on a 250cc motorbike and away you go without the slightest tuition. I struggled through the first day but had an accident the second day which could have cost me my life. So one thing which has changed for the better is training, both bikes and cars, but I’m still not convinced it isn’t a box-ticking exercise with a bit of head scratching and a certificate to ‘prove’ you have reached a good standard.

I’m sure I'm not the only one here who would admit that if I took a test tomorrow I would fail with flying colours :) Yet I am far and away safer than new drivers so the question is how do we get them to our standard ASAP? This is where I wholeheartedly agree with you I think, it isn’t more tests or simulations and qualifications etc. that’s needed but some real training. But there’s still more to it than that I think…

I made an observation the other day of a trend and I don’t think I’m imagining it. Something which happens all the time which I know didn’t happen nearly as much years ago.

I often find when I am shopping other people don’t have any special awareness. They can be blocking a doorway or those alarm barriers for instance and it’s obvious that you are waiting to get by but still you have to say “excuse me” while they chatter or faff in a bag without any regard for someone else’s situation. They often look at you like they're doing you a favour as they drag their stupid carcass out the way. I feel like saying do you expect me to leap frog over you or something you ignorant S of a B!!! :x

Contrast this with my generation, or older, where we made an effort to consider others and if you accidentally did get in the way you would apologise with a gracious smile and guide of the hand.

So why should this ignorant, reactive, attitude be any different when they are behind the wheel? Well it isn’t of course. It’s this lack of special awareness and consideration for others which bothers me and I’m sure it’s reflected in their bad driving. Whether I’m on legs or wheels, if I can see a situation coming I am pro-active whereas many of today’s generation are more reactive. It's lack of respect for others really; they think they are the most important thing on earth. :puke:

Well that’s today’s rant over with :D

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 05:06 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7361
Location: Highlands
ICSD wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Also let's not forget (or become too 'scared') that our driving test has traditionally enabled people to learn at an appropriate pace suitable for their abilities and ensure that when they go onto the roads 'solo' they are fully safe and ready to take to the roads. .............It is this 2nd / 3rd etc stage of learning that at the moment is self encourage usually by interest or passion. If we can help to encourage that interest and passion then more will want to learn, when people are told they have to learn, often as not they turn off to the whole idea, so constructing suitable learning platforms, and procedures takes a lot of care, consideration and a total comprehension appreciation of psychology and 'life learning' skills.
Cognitive Therapy where people can learn for them selves is an interesting area as people learn by themselves and at their own pace, and has helped more people recently than nearly all other methods.

I have to say that I believe that the current and past driver training/test is wholly inadequate. It allows poor/uninterested drivers on to the roads and doesn't truly prepare drivers for what they will face.

There needs to be a greater understanding of the learning processes but the driving test has generally provided good drivers who are ready for the road. If this is not the case then a closer inspection of the testers and the teaching may need improving. No one has to be 'interested' in driving to pass a test. Many people are 'A to B' drives and as long as they can drive safely and pass the test within guidelines then they should be 'safe'.
Do you appreciate that drivers do not know everything when they go 'solo'?
ICSD wrote:
To suggest that self-teaching should take place post test is simply not enough as that self-teaching could easily lead to an accident - far better that limits are tested and found in a controlled environment.

This 'self-teaching' has proven extremely helpful but it is not without guidance - Cognitive Therapy can easily be adapted to driving techniques as could simulators and games too ... how might you view those techniques. CT is often carried out with a counselor but in this case perhaps a 'good driver' or online facility to help answer queries and help develop thought processes to better driving attitudes, knowledge, skills and abilities. Do you not think that those on the road already have not learned something every day from all that experience.
A surgeon learns from theory and books to start and then from practical experience. The best mechanic is usually the most experienced along with the best pilots .... some people do very badly in a 'classroom environment and test tyoe set up. Driving is a practical action and best taught when in action or in conjunction with some lessons and then practice.
What is your experiences of either ?
ICSD wrote:
Every young driver thinks they're a driving god - a healthy dose of off road/track driving would soon teach them that they're not - especially if they were trying to match lap times of more experienced drivers.

I do not think that, not every driver thinks this at all, a bit assumptive. Showing a young driver and try to 'scare' them into 'behaving' in a certain way is fine if you have a certain type of person but for many, and I might say most here, you would make them likely worse drivers than better or even scare them so much they become concerned when back on the road. Psychology plays a bit part of driver learning and behaviour.
However take those young drivers and show them how to hone their raw skills into balancing a car and how to handle it well and accurately and take their enthusiasm and you help gain respect and then they listen and here what you say, then they start to become better on the roads, as they naturally start to read the road better and most of all recognise hazards and know how they need to slow to enable enough time to react having anticipate well. Scaring young drivers is unlikely to work well even if it appears to work initially. And then if you make some scared how have you made them safer or a better driver?
Just making them go quick around a safe environment may just encourage an even more 'excitable' reaction back on the roads than help them understand car handling. If you take them into a lesson situation to show them how to handle, balance, see & observe well in advance, road (track) conditions, best line, fastest route, car ability and it's limitations, tyre limitations, race rules and regs, best car controls and positions to achieve those, you start to help show what skills and knowledge can be acquired with practice and time to learn - to get around a track be it dirt or race.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 18:09 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 18:00
Posts: 2
There is a German/British study which shows zero correlation between the 'goodness' of driver training and the subsequent crash record (and this is well explained by my AMPS Theory of Crash Causation - mentioned above). I believe that the lack of correlation is because none of the 'official driver training' courses include, as they xxxx well should, 'in extremis' driving. In the '60's and '70's I taught several young ladies to drive (while carefully avoiding the know-it-all young ahh gentlemen). I told them that they were not going on the road until they could get around a slalom course of plastic bottles (faut de pylons) in a vacant parking lot (in Europe it was the vacant airbase in Marville after all the aircraft had gone to Lahr) within 10 per cent of my time when I was trying.
I also participated in and organized slaloms put on by the base motorsports club in both those bases. Also, in my columns in both base newspapers (who else to get as a driving columnist other than 'the young transport officer'?) I encouraged all readers to come out and participate in this 'life saving practice' with their 'daily driver'.
More recently I have been calling such slaloms "practice in completing the second half of the 'S-Curve to Safety' ". Think about it. The first half is automatic but, without practice in 'in extremis' driving IN YOUR DAILY DRIVER, you have little chance of completing the s-curve and 'getting to the hole' and will, at best, smash into the guardrail. Such practice once saved my new 1967 Plymouth Barracuda (currently taking up one half of our two-car garage) from an intimate embrace with a guardrail on a German autobahn when a 'lady driver' of unknown gender slowed suddenly in the right lane instead of the deceleration lane to his/her right.
I firmly believe that every community of significant size should establish both such a slalom course for use by driving instructors and standard times (requiring hard braking for the tighter corners) for the course which must be met before the student can complete their training on public roads.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:13 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:14
Posts: 9
SafeSpeedv2, you seem to be missing my point.

What I'm saying is that many drivers of all levels of experience and ability will, at some stage, lose control of their car unexpectedly. If it's happened to them before and someone taught them what to do then their chances of correcting the problem are far greater.

As an analogy, would you send a soldier to war without first teaching him how to un-jam his rifle? Surely we all need to be prepared for when things go wrong?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 13:28 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 19:11
Posts: 172
Location: Southampton
The problem with our driver training is as I see it that we do not generally cover all types of driving that will be encountered. A recent suggestion was not to allow young drivers to drive at night. Is this really solving the problem? Learners usually only get lessons in daylight and when the weather is good. Why? If they practice at night, in fog, in snow, they will know how to cope properly with such conditions. After all, they will have to cope at sometime, so surely the earlier and with proper instruction is a far better way to learn.

Another concern that has recently arisen is the number of accidents occurring on rural roads particularly with young drivers. Is this surprising seeing that most driving instruction takes place in town conditions? The driving test involves being able to reasonably competently control a car in town conditions and is therefore the main core of most driving instruction and practice. So when rural roads are encountered, have drivers been taught how to judge the severity of a bend or how to use full beam headlights effectively and all the other new experiences they are going to encounter? Is it any wonder that accident rates are high? The same can be said for motorways. Seeing that few drivers have had proper instruction on how to use motorways the majority cope amazingly well.

Whynot


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 14:08 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 16:34
Posts: 4923
Location: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place
ICSD wrote:
SafeSpeedv2, you seem to be missing my point.

What I'm saying is that many drivers of all levels of experience and ability will, at some stage, lose control of their car unexpectedly. If it's happened to them before and someone taught them what to do then their chances of correcting the problem are far greater.

As an analogy, would you send a soldier to war without first teaching him how to un-jam his rifle? Surely we all need to be prepared for when things go wrong?
Not necessarily, some may just want to go on a duck shoot ;) I don't mean to sound quarrelsome but, as mentioned, there are many A to B drivers; my girlfriend is one of them. :roll:

She avoids motorways and takes public transport on bad days. She wouldn’t know how to do a handbrake turn, for example, if you showed her a million times. So I think it would be unfair to impose some sort of 'Colin McRae style' tips and hints on her.

She hasn’t had an accident in the ten years I’ve known her because, (and here’s the thing!), she knows what she’s like and drives within her limits at all times.

I should hate to think people like her are restricted simply because they are not as confident, experienced or have a natural propensity towards driving as you or I.

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 14:44 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 14:26
Posts: 4364
Location: Hampshire/Wiltshire Border
algullon wrote:
There is a German/British study which shows zero correlation between the 'goodness' of driver training and the subsequent crash record...

whynot wrote:
Seeing that few drivers have had proper instruction on how to use motorways the majority cope amazingly well.


Are these arguments for doing away with driver training and testing altogether as a waste of time and money and just letting people learn by experience?

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 15:18 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:14
Posts: 9
Big Tone wrote:
She hasn’t had an accident in the ten years I’ve known her because, (and here’s the thing!), she knows what she’s like and drives within her limits at all times.


I bet she's seen a few though :)

How does she know what her limits are without going past them? You can lose control of a car at 20mph - she only has to do that and panic at exactly the wrong moment and in exactly the wrong place and people die - simple as that!

Also, the kind of driving that you've described your girlfriend of doing, frankly, leads to frustration and ultimately bad driving in others.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 15:22 
Offline
New User
New User

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 13:14
Posts: 9
malcolmw wrote:
algullon wrote:
There is a German/British study which shows zero correlation between the 'goodness' of driver training and the subsequent crash record...

whynot wrote:
Seeing that few drivers have had proper instruction on how to use motorways the majority cope amazingly well.


Are these arguments for doing away with driver training and testing altogether as a waste of time and money and just letting people learn by experience?


That's a very good point. At what point should training stop and self-training begin - that's a very grey line unless you decide to teach either nothing or everything!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.049s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]