Safe Speed Forums

Ah, you beat me to it Malcolm! I was going to say that there's a great deal of appeal (for me!) in the conversation:

"Hi boss, sorry I've not been in work this last 3 weeks, but as you know, it's been snowy and icy here, and being honest with myself about the conditions, I came to the decision that getting to work wasn't a "lifesaving mission", so I haven't come in. See you in about March - or maybe sooner if it thaws"!

Nah, it's just not going to happen!

I live in the rural back end of nowhere. Just getting out of the drive is hard enough when it snows! Public transport is NOT an option for many who live round here. I'm all for giving people the information and training to make the best informed choice that they can. I'm also all in favour of reducing car journeys by working from home (regardless of the weather)! I'm quite happy to see the benefits of trains (where such services exist), but I'd NEVER try to stop anyone exercising their own judgement and giving it a go if they felt able. I know there will be casualties as a result, but I don't seee doing nothing as a viable alternative either.

Is this not the problem these days? As soon as there is a risk present we don't do it, consequently we never learn to how to deal with the risk in a safe manner.

Driving in snow and ice does need some practice and as I said in another post the best way is to drive as if you have no brakes, which means good obseration, anticipation and hazard awareness, using the engine and gears to reduce speed, but you do need to be able to double decluch to do this smoothly or at least match the engine revs when changing down. Steering and acceleration should be applied very gently and be aware of what the car is doing. Remember that you cannot drive as you do on a dry road.

Yes , it's a shame we don't all get to drive on snow for a couple of weeks every year, it would help sharpen up our reactions and improve our driving on "not quite so bad" conditions such as heavy rain etc.

Going off track a bit now....

About 15 years ago, I broke my leg badly while skiing ( I was already a fairly competent skier) but because of a bad break and having a nail still in my Tibia, I decided to ski on shorter blades afterwards for the next few years. Now these are fun on normal pistes but to go everywhere that my friends on normal length skis used to go took a lot of determination and good balance etc (blades aren't as forgiving on softer snow or ice, as longer skis). However when I went back onto longer skis after about 4 years on blades, my skiing had been transformed because of the technique that I had to hone to go everywhere that my friends used to go and at similar speeds to them.

It's the same when driving on snow, you have to anticipate the road ahead more, brake and accelerate very gently and only when neccessary, steer gently and treat every corner as if it's more slippery than it looks. Then when conditions improve the skills that you learn and practice on snow help you to drive in any conditions afterward. It's a shame that younger drivers can't spend a couple of weeks driving on snow without modern aids such as ESP and ABS , I feel that if they were to do this, they would learn to drive safer in heavy rain and on roads that are not "perfect".

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

The Great British Employee seems to apply a different safety threshold to driving to/at work compared to domestic driving.

We make them take a days leave if they don't get in.

Someone at our place got "snowed in" and couldn't drive to work apparently, then it became clear that they'd gone to Stourhead for the day instead in their car.

Not just snow -remember in yer yooth -at work if it rained -it was back to the van for shelter .On the pitch ,only poor visibility stopped the game .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

One interesting perspective is the employer who will not allow his staff to travel 'on company business' in compacted snow+ice......."because the Company's insurance wouldn't cover the losses of accidents occurring journey made in obviously-dangerous conditions"

Square that with the same staff being encouraged to try to get into work in the same conditions?!

Bloody exaggerations!!!! They get no-one anywhere when it comes to trying to have a balanced and sensible discussion.

Good for you, Mole........let's hope people's judgements, and your own, will stand the test and challenges of the next lot of dangerous conditions

I have never heard of this happening. Back in the big freeze of 1981/1982, I was a service engineer covering aprrox 550miles a week on rural and urban roads and if I had questioned whever it was safe to go out I would have been given two options and would not have been suprised by this. Consider all the driving jobs throughout the country. would you expect your milkman, postie,gritter driver,doctor,nurse,policeman etc etc to be told to take the day off for bad weather?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

A mind-reader as well as a sage now, eh, Graball? You'll be telling me next that you know what prompted the police-sergeant to make that statement! Close the country down for 6 months of the year & totally ban every form of motorised transport during snow bound weeks ............sure, that's exactly what I meant (NOT). I'll send you an invite to speak at the sergeant's next RoSPA meeting. It's audience is a group of 20 to 25 yearolds who want to learn safety from the experiences of the presenters.

Since I can't make it across the pond for the next few months ...

Too Slow In, leaves the option of Faster Out, among nearly every other option as well.
Too Fast In, leaves no options in reserve. You are now at the mercy of the line you chose, and the available road grip.

Try not to [need to] combine braking and turning, or turning and accelerating in slippery conditions (and do make note of that sequence).

In slippery conditions, you almost always lose more turning ability than you lose braking ability - or - as road friction decreases, the friction circle gets skinnier in the middle, faster than it shrinks from top to bottom. This means that if you're making a turn and have to brake suddenly, expect that you might brake in a straight line.

If you can't see the end of the turn before you begin it, best to use a late apex.

Slow, smooth, steady, gradual inputs are usually best.

Can anyone think of any others? Or am I overgeneralizing?

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The Rules for ALL ROAD USERS:
1) No one gets hurt
2) Nothing gets hit, except to protect others; see Rule#1
3) The Laws of Physics are invincible and immutable - so-called 'laws' of men are not
4) You are always immediately and ultimately responsible for your safety first, then proximately responsible for everyone's
Do not let other road users' mistakes become yours, nor yours become others
5) The rest, including laws of the land, is thoughtful observation, prescience, etiquette, decorum, and cooperation

Not as much of an exaggeration as you might think, I'm afraid!

From just under a week before Christmas to a fortnight after, those conditions were pretty much unchanged round here. The only exaggeration, if you can call it that, is that I obviously didn't have to go to work over the Christmas period so it wasn't a big deal - but I'm sure you can understand that it was nothing more than luck that made it so - it could easily have been (say) the first three weeks in January.

So, in the interests of a "balanced and sensible discussion", do you think I (and everyone else similarly affected) should have taken the good Sergent's advice?

i'm sorry Samandben, if the thought of NOT closing the country down for the period of any snow /ice that we have, upsets you, but for people like myself, that now work for myself (last 27years) and previously in a service industry, this would not be possible. Your local sergeant may advise people to stay at home during the weeks/months of ice/snow packed roads but in reality /practical terms how long would his job(the jobs of others) remain intact if this practice was put into reality?
In the real world people have to get on with their lives (in an ideal world we would all be sunning ourselves on a desert island during the months of December to March) and in the majority of cases that means getting off our backsides and doing what we normally do (working for a living0.

Personally, i love the winter, I love to go to really snow bound countries like Austria and Canada and ski and soak up a winter environment. I know it's not everyone's idea of fun but I like a challenge and a change of scenery.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I went down the local pub for a drink with some mates (only soft drinks) after having to do a bit of running about, so took the car. It snowed quite a bit that night so after dropping one of the lads off at his home I decide to go for a drive on the virgin white snow (it was after midnight and the roads were deserted apart from the odd taxi). I really enjoyed it and it gave me a wonderful opportunity to really test my new tyres (uniroyale Rainsport2s) in snow. I'm really impressed with the progressive handling in the wet and dry but even more impressed in snow. I did quite a few miles on rural roads and back roads where I could "experiment" without endagering myself or others too much.

Now no doubt the Road Safety "experts" will be labelling me an idiot for making uneccessary journies and endangering my life and others and I expect an Health and Safety Executive to bang on my door at any minute but hey, I've been driving on snow and every other surface for 36 years now and really enjoy it. If you enjoy driving for the sake of it, then so long as you take into consideration the added dangers (just as you would if it was foggy or raing heavy) and pick your route to avoid excessive traffic, there's no reason why you shouldn't enjoy the thrill of driving no matter what. In many countries snowy roads are the norm for 4 or 5 months.

Now I'm not condoning going out in the middle of a blizzard, at rush hour, to pick up a pint of milk and helping cause mayhem on the roads but a sensible drive, at sensible times on quiet roads is a wondrful way to gain experience in snow driving.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.