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 Post subject: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 18:03 
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It seems that, lately, a lot of people have forgotten - if they ever knew - the rules regarding the use of foglights. Even common sense seems to have taken a back seat.
The tendency is to switch on the foglights at the merest hint of some mist, and then to forget to switch them off again.

To my mind, if visibility is good enough for you to be doing 80+MPH, you definitely do not need foglights.

The other morning I was standing in a traffic queue, not going anywhere very fast, when the driver in front of me decided that, as it was a bit hazy, foglights were needed. He/she then proceeded to blind me for the next 10 minutes.

It's not only their dazzling effect, but the fact that they're brighter than brake lights can cause confusion in the drivers behind them, and possibly hazardous situations.

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 18:35 
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Funny you mention that. I was behind a car yesterday with it's rear fog light blazing away. And of course there was no fog to be seen. I think people use the front fog lights to see 'better' in the dark, but doing so put on the rear one as well. All the cars I have known you can independently switch the front and rear fog lights.
Maybe people forget about this.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 19:07 
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The rear lights are not fog lights but are "High intesity rear lights" for use in fog or poor visabilty. The front fog lights (sometimes called driving lights) should only be used in fog or falling snow and if below 21" from the ground and illegal for use otherwise. When I see the latter being used in good visability I know I have a boy racer coming up and he owns the road. (So he thinks) OLLIE


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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 20:36 
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ollie wrote:
The rear lights are not fog lights but are "High intesity rear lights" for use in fog or poor visabilty. The front fog lights (sometimes called driving lights) should only be used in fog or falling snow and if below 21" from the ground and illegal for use otherwise. When I see the latter being used in good visability I know I have a boy racer coming up and he owns the road. (So he thinks) OLLIE


People seem to have different ideas what Fog lights/spot lights/ driving lights are.
From my understanding Fog lights are mounted low to the ground and are angled out to throw a short beam of light to highlight the kerb and centre line, these lights are only good when driving at low speeds and when visibility is reduced to less than 100m.
So are driving lights and fog lights the same thing ? Because I thought driving lights were used along with your high beam to light the road.
and then there is a question of spot lights.
Oh let's not forget about day time running lights...proper DTRL are there to highlight the vehicle only and not to dazzle other drivers.

I am sure I will get different answers.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 00:11 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Fog lights - front mounted lights ( and as such send out light under a fog blanket to light up the blanket ) -that enable you to see ahead ,without blinding you with the return light .
Rear fog lights - high intensity lights intended to let those behind see you in FOG /SNOW - BUT not rain
Driving lights - lights to enhance the forward visibility of main beam headlamps .( and should be wired to go out when dip is selected )

A good pairing is a low fog light set to pick out the kerb ,with a low driving light set to pick up problems in front,but set at an angle to light up in front .

Above was the gist of the answer from a MET trafpol about 40+ years ago ,when I was looking for advice on placement of fog/driving lights on my car in the London of the late 60's .

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 01:04 
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I've always felt that it would be extremely easy for manufacturers to simply limit the car's speed to (say) 50 when the rear fog lights are on - after all even 50MPH in (true) 100m visibility would be pushing it! If they did that, people would soon remember to turn the f$*&%g things off!


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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 01:15 
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Mole wrote:
I've always felt that it would be extremely easy for manufacturers to simply limit the car's speed to (say) 50 when the rear fog lights are on - after all even 50MPH in (true) 100m visibility would be pushing it! If they did that, people would soon remember to turn the f$*&%g things off!


Or a loud message from the in car CPU "you have rear foglights on - do you really need them ? "

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 01:20 
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Quote:
Lights - What are the rules regarding lights on my vehicle?
To drive a vehicle at night, all of the necessary lights must be attached, clean and in good working order.

Fog lamps:

Front fog lamps are not obligatory but if fitted must be white or yellow in colour, used in a pair and must not cause undue dazzle or discomfort, nor be used except in seriously reduced visibility. They must be clean and in good working order.
Rear fog lights are obligatory on a vehicle first used on or after 01.04.86. They must be red in colour and must not cause undue dazzle or discomfort, must not be lit whilst vehicle is parked nor to be used except in seriously reduced visibility.
Where two are fitted both must work. Where one is fitted it must be fitted to the centre or the offside of the vehicle. They must be clean and in good working order.
The driver must be able to see the lights are on by way of a visual indication (warning light) inside the vehicle.

Spot lights:

Spot lights or additional headlights can only be used in a pair and in conjunction with full beam headlights and should not be capable of being illuminated without the operation of the obligatory headlights.


http://www.cheshire.police.uk/modules.php?module=faqs&action=showmain&faqIndex=L

And:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_4.htm Section 27, part 3.

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 08:46 
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Why is it illegal to use front fog lights in clear visibility? They are too low and too short range to dazzle. But they do make the vehicle more conspicuous. A "boy racer" with front fogs in day light is much less dangerous than the economical driver who will not put lights on until sunset, no matter how murky the conditions.

And the question of dazzle from high intensity rear lights brings me to another of my pet hates. People who keep their foot on the brake in queues. If somebody in front of me does that I usually give them a blast of full beam. :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 09:03 
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More to the point; they are not supposed to be illuminated with dip/low-beam headlights.
I did the "full-beam" t'ing to a car in front once....then the concealed blues started flashing and I got warned for behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace.

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is still not completed.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:18 
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I recon there are probably several reasons why foks have fog lights on inappropriately ....

There was bad visability a little while back and they forgot to turn them off.
They mistakenly think visibility is low enough to warrant use.
Using them as additional lighting but don't know it's illegal and don't care/realise that it might be annoying to other road users.
Want everybody to know as theirs has front fog lights their car is the upmarket/fancy/more expensive model. :flamethrow:

One night last year on the A82 for fun I counted the number of cars I saw with front fog light on, it was a night with good visability between 7:30pm and 9:30pm (ish) without a hint of fog or rain ... between Fort William and Paisley I counted 23 :o

It always puts me into full "numpty alert" mode when I see incorret use of fog lights ..... like Mole's idea of speed limiting when on :lol:

Agree with dcb on brake lights in stationary traffic ... shows lack of consideration for others & causes "numpty alert" ...... another pet hate of mine .. folks parked up with headlights still on facing oncoming traffic :hoppingmad: :flamethrow:

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 14:41 
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Quote:
Why is it illegal to use front fog lights in clear visibility? They are too low and too short range to dazzle. But they do make the vehicle more conspicuous. A "boy racer" with front fogs in day light is much less dangerous than the economical driver who will not put lights on until sunset, no matter how murky the conditions.


I have to agree with you entirely on this one, Dave, I find people with front fogs left on, to be of negligable nuisance value , unlike the people who fail to use anything brighter than sidelights in almost darkness or heavy rain/snow/fog etc.

However, rear fogs, when left on, are at best a nuisance and close on dangerous in rain, when they seem to dazzle you most.

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 14:47 
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Quote:
People seem to have different ideas what Fog lights/spot lights/ driving lights are.


Cibie used to do a good range of Fog, Driving and Spot lamps.

Fogs are as described above, driving lamps have fluted lenses to give a good spread of light but to be used with main beam and spots are also to be used with main beam but have clear (concave?) lenses which give a long range (spot) of light which can be directed immediately ahead or slightly off to the left to pick out the kerb at a distance.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 17:20 
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Front fogs - especially when paired with sidelights - are quite a good numpty detector. Give them plenty of room!

And they _can_ be very dazzling if you encounter someone with them on the brow of a hill. I was forced to reverse by an oncoming Mini the other night. The driver had fogs on and saw fit to keep driving towards me as I tried to reverse using my wing mirrors (in a van). The fogs made this a lot harder.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 05:12 
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Fog lights (front fogs this is) can help you to see the verge better - that can help you at night or dusk driving to catch an earlier glimpse of deer and why they were likely on in 23 cars (that presumably was most of the number of cars you saw ?). Was that over the entire 172miles of the A82 or a section?
That would only apply to autumn / winter when the deer are in the lower slopes and a higher incidence of road crossings.

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 08:06 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
And they _can_ be very dazzling if you encounter someone with them on the brow of a hill. I was forced to reverse by an oncoming Mini the other night. The driver had fogs on and saw fit to keep driving towards me as I tried to reverse using my wing mirrors (in a van). The fogs made this a lot harder.


You can be dazzled by any lights if the angle is suitable.

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 22:55 
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Someone made a point a few years ago (on these fora, I think) that it's not so much the fog light itself that dazzles, but sometimes its reflection off a damp road can be quite distracting. I've never found it a big problem myself but I can see how it might happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 02:28 
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The other problem I often see is that certainly around this way the local chavs drive around with sidelights and fog lights on only.

Let's see just how much I can impare my vision by not having enough light on the road.... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 09:09 
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Safety Engineer wrote:
Let's see just how much I can impare my vision by not having enough light on the road.... :roll:


Which starts me on another rant. Why, in total darkness with no oncoming traffic, do so many people drive on dipped beam. It makes overtaking that much more difficult. Oh. that is probably why. :x

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 Post subject: Re: Fog lights
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:10 
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Nail. Head.

[Numpty]Dipped beam's all you need to drive at forty, why make life easier for "speed merchants" overtaking you?[/numpty]

It's also so they can flash angrily at you when you do overtake.


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