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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 20:16 
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I spotted this on the way through coventry a few weeks back and have been trying to find some info ever since with limited luck, all i found so far is a similar thread on PH.

As part of the almost continuous redevelopment they've replaced a cross road set of lights with.... well.... not much :D
The main road has been generally narrowed with new kerbs and over the junction at 45degrees to the roads is a red tarmac square with grey cobbled edges. With temporary signs stating "No Priority Junction".

This is a through route within the ring road and on a bus route, tho tbh I rarely have reason to use it except when cycling through, most traffic without an end destination within 1/4mile would probably be on the ring road.

The press are of course playing it up on safety & grumbling driver grounds ... the usual sniffing round for a story which may or not be there. Will be interesting to see how it goes, certainly sows uncertainty as you approach, my only concern is that i) they've very slightly offset the carraigeway of what would usually be the most common straight across option and ii) is it obvious enough that you're approaching a junction and where you should be looking for other traffic.

I'm waiting for the recent article to appear on iplayer, i think it'll only be up for 24hrs so keep an eye on:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mj57

Junction in question is this one:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=england&h ... m&t=m&z=18

Overall in the right context.. I'm game for it.... are you ?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 21:11 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
I've seen the article ,not sure .But what I'm bothhered about is what Coventry does , usually finds it's way into Warks -and in this town that frightens me .The number of times I've nearly been wiped out on islnds when I'm half way accross ,by some one my left.
Next ,those on right assume they have right of way from 20 yds away .So beware if you're on the island .
As for NO PRIORITY -not what HC SAYS .But then HA always overule what the law says . :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 21:58 
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yes i saw your post over there and suspected it was you :wink:
there does seem to be a generally worse standard of driving over there, i've nearly been taken out at juntions & mini roundabouts alike one the bike & in the car.. and seen a few tyre screeching incidents. darwinism clearly isn't working too well.

that said i can think of very few junctions there that would suit anything like this.
city centres are a bit of a special case... and cov as usual even more so :D


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 22:29 
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Yep Cov is a special case -they certainly like to do thingd diffently .Take the ring road .Only recently they decided to let the public into the secret of how it was planned- you join ,get into the inside lane ,them move into the outside till the junction before your exit .Wheras the HC says that on a DC (WHICH THIS ) you keep to the inside lane EXCEPT when overtaking . :?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:26 
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botach wrote:
Yep Cov is a special case -they certainly like to do thingd diffently .Take the ring road .Only recently they decided to let the public into the secret of how it was planned- you join ,get into the inside lane ,them move into the outside till the junction before your exit .Wheras the HC says that on a DC (WHICH THIS ) you keep to the inside lane EXCEPT when overtaking . :?


Aye but even on Mway or DC you'd get in lane according to any overhead gantries when approaching a junction...... and the gantries are every 100 yards or so and indicate that logic.
not that anyone follows it mind.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:10 
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ed_m wrote:
Overall in the right context.. I'm game for it.... are you ?
Yes, I think so. I’ll find out soon enough because I go to Coventry lots. This was on the local news yesterday in fact ed. They said it comes with a blanket :20: in the area which I am not opposed to under those circumstances. It was first done in Holland where it was a resounding success but doubtless the bleeding hearts over hear will say it’s madness and suicide before even giving it a chance or looking at the evidence.

I’ve mentioned this before, after I came back from Amsterdam, whre the cars, cyclists and peds all seemed to share space with no problem whatsoever. That’s when I wrote about the cycling on pavement thing, it’s quite doable with a different mindset and attitude. As always, it’s the irresponsible who will make the experiment a failure over here.

The other thing which hit me in the face like a wet fish was something they said which we have heralded on SS IIRC. To paraphrase, “Because of the uncertainty people actually look more carefully which makes it safer” :clap:

I haven't looked at what the so-called oft-quoted 'safety' campaigns have said yet, but I can imagine... :doh:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 16:41 
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Some pics I took on the way through this morning....
(university open day so the ring road is a war zone of tired confused parents :D ).

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 19:39 
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What they need is one of these...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM
and driving attitudes to match.

Actually I can see it would NEVER work here, because it would only take one arrogant driver to screw it all up.
This example only works because the drivers are so flexible about where and WHEN they want to be anywhere.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 21:39 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
What they need is one of these...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM
and driving attitudes to match.

Actually I can see it would NEVER work here, because it would only take one arrogant driver to screw it all up.
This example only works because the drivers are so flexible about where and WHEN they want to be anywhere.


Very interesting video. Clearly it works because the drivers are negotiating the roadspace in the same way that pedestrians negotiate a busy pavement. It is the ABSENCE of rules that makes this work!

The problem over here is the rules! Rules create the idea of "entitlement" and "Rights of way" and THAT is where it all falls down!

As is often the case in life, perhaps this is another case of "Less is more"

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 22:11 
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Dusty said

Quote:
The problem over here is the rules! Rules create the idea of "entitlement" and "Rights of way" and THAT is where it all falls down!

Honestly ,I wish the idea well ,but from NIMBY POV .
Locally ,we've got an island where you either have to look out for those who remember it as "their " road being the major road and shoot straight through ,or sit an wait whilst some frightened person sits an waits for al traffic to clear .What is more concerning is that this isjust up the road from a DVLA test centre - my sympathies lie with those whose first action is to negotiate this island .What also concerns me is that although the town centre is ANPR daft this area is a haven for mini motos /mini quas on pavement etc etc ,so you never know if the vehicle hammering over the islan is legal ,and by by NCB .

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 13:25 
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more here & ensuing comment storm for entertainment purposes...
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/c ... -29745429/

not sure how good/bad this statistic is or what it shows:
"There have been 16 pedestrians injured over five years in 40 accidents at the Gosford Street junction"


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 16:05 
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ed_m wrote:
not sure how good/bad this statistic is or what it shows:
"There have been 16 pedestrians injured over five years in 40 accidents at the Gosford Street junction"

What it obviously shows is :evil: .... that 40 pedestrians walked into lampposts/other pavement furniture after a night out and a few shandies :drink2:, 16 of them sustained injuries as a result .... :bighand: ... no ??

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 20:26 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Mrs & I were in Coventry this afternoon .Thought I'd spotted the one Ed mentione .But no -there's another
Link

Junction of Corporation st /Hales st /burges .Just own from the Royal mail depot .

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 22:20 
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aye seem to be 4 or 5 according to one of the articles.. will do a tour at some point :D


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 22:48 
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Forgot to say -IMHO seemed a sane option .But heaven help us in Treacletown if it spreads up here - I live close to the test centre ,possibly first island a person on test meets - to me ,I stan back and let the idiots proceed . But consider a learner - stutter and it's a black mark .Get halfway accross to meet idiot forcing ,and more black marks.
The idiots only read - "give way to traffic on right" - the other bit about persons on island having priority :banghead: :headbash: :tumbleweed: seems to have gone WHOSH,over their heads

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 13:04 
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http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/c ... -30108709/

Seems a sad incident with an elderly gent at one of these junctions (serious injuries but stable).
My experience is that of all the users the buses seem to approach with least caution and most speed and probably need the riot act reading.

"Second" accident is poor reporting and actually at a junction where lights have been taken out & replaced with a regular T-junction (image of this junction on 2ndp age of article).
Also seems to be implication that a centre wide 20mph is unenforceable ?.... which seems kind of a key backup for these kinds of junctions.
The council are (rightly i think) resisting a knee jerk reaction.

Time to read the comments....


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 20:53 
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ed_m wrote:
aye seem to be 4 or 5 according to one of the articles.. will do a tour at some point :D


From the news reports on the accident ,there are two of these junctions . And on the accident -one paper mentions that this was second . Think it was the CET -but can't find any mention on their site .

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:33 
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quite a few more articles on this as plans for 5 more are revealed:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/topics ... junctions/

some interesting sounding accident & speed stats in this article http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/c ... -31956322/ altho not very clear... wonder what the raw data looks like ?

they work well for me when i've crossed them on foot/pedal/car.... altho some of the new ones are on main access routes to city centre car parks which implies higher traffic volume so i'd have thought you'd want to maintain a bit more control there.

and they are (i think) noticably nicer for their lack of poles/signs/clutter.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:36 
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One I mentioned further up seemed to work well. Except that bus drivers think they've always got right of way.
Rest is slightly OT
Haven't been back that way as it's on way to shops that mrs likes(Primark?) ,but of late I've had leg problems and we've come to a solution/compromise. I drop her outside West Orchards ( on the pavement,gently), drive in,find a space and take the escalator down. ( Can't get on with Turbolift- no fear of heights - when you've worked on aerial installations up a Scottish mountain,a heads for heights is something you acquire )

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 17:30 
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botach wrote:
One I mentioned further up seemed to work well. Except that bus drivers think they've always got right of way.


this is back in the local press today:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/c ... -32697553/
if the prosecution can show that he had full visibility available when making the turn i'm not sure what defence he can offer, the list of injuries aren't minor! unless there's some technical appeal or mitigation due to the nature of the junction.


on a side note i had a pleasing encounter on saturday cycling through town (better hills out toward coleshill) turning right at one of these.
checked over my shoulder and moved to middle of lane, signalling right as i freewheeled toward the junction. a taxi from the right looking to turn across me and an oncoming motorist going straight on both slowed and waved me across (yes, even a taxi driver!).
(then got to encounter the one way section by the transport museum which used to have a convenient contraflow cycle path... which has been replaced with a taxi rank after lobbying from the drivers)

oh and take care botach, they've added more on street marked parking bays, made them all pay & display and scrubbed the double yellows off... the whole city centre is parking in marked bays only now... seems to be catching plenty out.


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