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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 04:57 
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graball wrote:
I too, was taught to look on every other car around you as if it was driven by a homicidal maniac out to get you (in other words observe everything that everyone around you does and don't assume anything)
Definitely good advice ! I recall being told that too, only my driving instructor taught fighter pilots! :) He was a super chap and we got on really well. I had always heard the "learn to pass the test, then you start to learn to drive" (with experience), "assume the worst" "anticipate the unexpected" and so on. He started me off (officially), although I have always loved to drive - a real 'driving passion'. :) The other courses have taught me a lot more and then all the many discussions with Paul - of course.

However your comments bring to mind the close observations of other road users, this is being eroded in favour of keeping legal and preserving one's licence.
I have noticed, how on motorways (with gantries) I feel forced to concentrate on pointless speed limit changes, instead of being able to assess and fully observe (as usual), every other motorist and their positioning and movements (in my scanning obs), resulting in feeling 'blind' or 'in a tunnel'. One gets less time to concentrate on the whole environment.
This is another negative effect to safer roads, because if I am effected, what happens when someone with less interest in driving reduces their observations, and possibly without realising too ? :shock:
With so many gantries and so many limit changes (totally un-necessary) the driver education to drive better is lost in favour of a limit.
To enable education and training to help this I think is crucial.
I think fresh approaches to training can be very beneficial and I do like new concepts that maybe more effective.
Why do many motorists not keep to 2 chevron 2 sec markers? Lack of 'belief', lack of comprehension?
I'd love to have a 'motorist game' that helps show good/bad driving behaviours and techniques.
Whilst physics has it's place, is it really what will capture peoples interest ? Will it help people drive better?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 09:36 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Why do many motorists not keep to 2 chevron 2 sec markers? Lack of 'belief', lack of comprehension?


Because they know, through experience, that they can stop safely in half that distance???

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:44 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Why do many motorists not keep to 2 chevron 2 sec markers? Lack of 'belief', lack of comprehension?


Because they know, through experience, that they can stop safely in half that distance???
Dare I say, this isn’t so different to that other bug bear of dumb speed limits. On a clear sunny dry day, looking ahead at the vehicle in front and also the ones in front of the one in front, knowing my good reaction time, not faffing with anything else or distracted while driving – I defy anything to catch me out.

:soapbox: I did have some idiot light on the dash of the Kangoo I was driving the other day which could potentially have caught me out. After being irritated nearly to death for miles I fathomed what is was for. It was a gear lever icon with a little arrow either pointing up or down to indicate when, and which way, I should change gear. :banghead:

I know, why don’t they put another one on there to indicate I’ve been driving for an hour and I should take a break? It could be the size of saucer so I don’t miss this ‘vital’ safety feature and flash bright red. It could also activate the radio; putting it on full blast while deactivating the power switch until I stop. It could also have an electric motor which slowly pulls the seatbelt tighter and tighter until you can hardly breath. :x

I can see me buying an old classic car one day...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 22:13 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Why do many motorists not keep to 2 chevron 2 sec markers? Lack of 'belief', lack of comprehension?


Because they know, through experience, that they can stop safely in half that distance???


But that is what causes the stop start situations on motorways. The car brakes hard the one behind brakes harder and so on. If a larger gap is maintained then any variations is speed can often be adjusted by the gas pedal enabling a smoother traffic flow.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 23:03 
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whynot wrote:
botach wrote:
graball wrote:
I started driving in 1973 so coming up for my 39th year soon...;-)

Whoops- time to update the sig ,then .Me- coming up for 45 th ,very soon .Now getting into my Flatcap yers . :D


Age is just numbers, you are only as old as you feel, and thats b...dy old sometimes :lol:

Or as young as you feel - and I'm looking at the driving around me and seeing a lot of folks who don't COAST . No sign of courtesy , consideration .No sign of observation ,.No sign of anticipitation .No sign of speed .No sign of timing . It all seems to have been forgotten in the mad dash to get folks past the test . Plenty of fly guys -who like to fly past a seemingly slow driver ,who's seem a problem ahead and is being cautious ,and then ,boom -on come the brakes ,because they've founf the problem that I've seen .

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 02:42 
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whynot wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Why do many motorists not keep to 2 chevron 2 sec markers? Lack of 'belief', lack of comprehension?


Because they know, through experience, that they can stop safely in half that distance???


But that is what causes the stop start situations on motorways. The car brakes hard the one behind brakes harder and so on. If a larger gap is maintained then any variations is speed can often be adjusted by the gas pedal enabling a smoother traffic flow.

Based on plenty of my own observations: I suspect the domino effect you refer to is caused by folks over-braking (possibly because they were half-asleep just before-hand and over-react), and/or because they don't like applying much throttle to accelerate back up to (in the mistaken believe that pussyfooting on the throttle is fuel efficient); the latter effect is obviously apparent at places of upward inclines. The number of people I've seen in in L3 leaving a 50-100m gap when pulling off .... :mad:

The chevrons are 40m apart (trafficsignsmanual). Two of these represents the total stopping distance, with a modern car, at motorway speeds.
It is widely accepted that, so long as one emergency brakes at the same place as the vehicle in front does (or one vehicle length before if one was to be pedantic), there should not be a collision (assuming the vehicles have the same braking performance). In reality, it is all about reaction times. Déjà vu?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 04:04 
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Getting back on topic:

To the headline of "MOMENTUM EXISTS", I can't help but think "That's nice. So what?"

stephenn, I still can't see what your campaign is about, even though I have surfed your Facebook page and your holding website. I also don't get what you ask of us.

(PS, I know physics - quite well too)

Quote:
To zero momentum safely.... ease on your brakes.

It could be humorously inferred that one should "ride the brake pedal".
However (in all seriousness), even that, yet again, boils down to driver reaction.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 17:50 
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Just out of sheer mischievousness (tempered with a little bit of pedantry!), if it's all about momentum, the car's momentum will be twice as big at 60 as it is at 30, and twice as big at 120 as it is at 60.

Why then, does the stopping distance not increase linearly with speed?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 22:23 
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Mole wrote:
Just out of sheer mischievousness (tempered with a little bit of pedantry!), if it's all about momentum, the car's momentum will be twice as big at 60 as it is at 30, and twice as big at 120 as it is at 60.

Why then, does the stopping distance not increase linearly with speed?

Is it "all down to exponential breaking... as you do" ? What does this mean anyway?


Would it not be just as valid to say: ENERGY EXISTS, or simply SPEED EXISTS ?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 16:37 
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Mole wrote:
Just out of sheer mischievousness (tempered with a little bit of pedantry!), if it's all about momentum, the car's momentum will be twice as big at 60 as it is at 30, and twice as big at 120 as it is at 60.

Why then, does the stopping distance not increase linearly with speed?


Because, as I said earlier and as you well know :) , kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity so the car's energy will be four times as big at 60 as it is 30 and sixteen times as big at 120. And controlled stopping of a car is involves converting that kinetic energy into heat. Energy is always conserved. Momentum isn't.

Which is why KINETIC ENERGY EXISTS would be a better slogan than MOMENTUM EXISTS.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 23:31 
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Off topic posts have been split into here.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 20:36 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
... Which is why KINETIC ENERGY EXISTS would be a better slogan than MOMENTUM EXISTS.
Which also wouldn't be understood by many but although it may start a conversation will it result in the one intended ?

Helping the thought provoking process it an excellent way to open a topic and applaud that wholeheartedly.
There are problems I think when one brings physics into it, as it is less understood by most and wrong physics is almost worse than no physics, mostly because something be taught incorrectly is going to have far reaching consequences.

We could open with psychology and experiences and lead that into how to deal with road issues, sensibly and realistically. Discuss a real issue that has effected someone and that means more to them than any lecture on the subject. Why learn about the physics if in fact a more simple and more easily digested thought will go further and mean much much more to that individual.

I an personally very interested in the physics as it is an area that I'd like to know more about. However a good safety sense and defensive driving ability have kept me very very safe and very wise to all road environments.
Hence why I questioned what was hoped to be gained.

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