Safe Speed Forums

What is the point in sending this message to school children? Surely it would do them a better service to teach them how to protect themselves on the roads!

And there was me thinking I was the only one who was wondering what became of these other useful options

Those who make such demands towards motorists, while ignoring the alternatives such as education/enforcement of other road user groups, can rightly be labelled as anti-motorist.

Those who make such demands towards motorists, while ignoring the alternatives such as education/enforcement of other road user groups, can rightly be labelled as anti-motorist.

Whist it is obviously very pragmatic to teach children road safety in order to preserve their lives on the current motorist dominated roads I can see no moral imperative giving the motorist the right to be the dominant force on the road; and for the motorist to expect others to modify their behaviour to suit his impatient convenience.

Other than the very real reason of the enormous lack of symmetry between the each groups ability to kill the other, why do you think that motorists should usually expect to have priority over pedestrians?

Why, for example, should a pedestrian be expected to wait to cross the road until there are no vehicles using it rather than the motorist be expected to stop when a pedestrian wishes to cross the road.

Why, for another example, at PeliCon crossings do pedestrians rather than motorists have to press the button and wait?

Not teaching kids how to cross the road is not about stopping motorists holding all the power, it's idiotic dogma and risking children's lives in order to play anti-car politics.

It's almost like Brake want a few kids to die, just to help them persuade everyone 'cars are evil', after all nobody would listen to them if there were no accidents.

Which is why I said "it is obviously very pragmatic to teach children road safety"

That is an unsubstantiated and perverse assertion

I certainly haven't expected such a thing. Did you know I walk and cycle a lot, as well as drive?

Why not modify the behaviour of both/all road user groups?

Why do you misrepresent my position in the matter?

Why are discussions about equalising the balance somehow interpreted as anti-non-motorist?

I'm not asking for one or the other; focussing on one group is not the best way to achieve road safety

All parties should be made responsible. Focussing demands on one party, when further improvements can be made by focussing on both/all, shows bias - that was my underlying point, do you understand this?

Do they always wait, or is the pedestrian phase actually quite quick if not used for a while? The answer is the latter (at pure Pelicons; combos are usually timed).

And what about zebra crossings?

I have never seen a PeLiCon Crossing which defaults to pedestrian priority so that a motorist might have to wait even if the road is clear. They always force the pedestrian to wait. They are biased in favour of the motorist. Why?

how many times in the last month, when driving in free flowing traffic, have you stopped (other than at a designated place such as a zebra crossing) to allow a pedestrian to cross the road in front of you

Why not indeed? But I think that, in order to achieve parity, motorists need to modify their behaviour a lot more than pedestrians

Steve - I reiterate that my post was not aimed at anyone let alone you who I consider to be the most dispassionate contributor to these forums.. If you feel offended then I apologize unreservedly.

But put your hand on your heart and answer this question: how many times in the last month, when driving in free flowing traffic, have you stopped (other than at a designated place such as a zebra crossing) to allow a pedestrian to cross the road in front of you

One could equally ask why Brake's discussions about equalising the balance are interpreted as anti-motorist rather than pro-pedestrian, with the added invective (not from you) that Brake rejoice when pedestrians are killed.

Again not aimed at you but the general tenor of the thread is that children should be taught to cross the road. Now all the methods of teaching children to cross the road - kerb drill, Mr tufty, Green Cross Code - teach that the pedestrian should be subservient to the motorist: wait until the road is clear before even thinking about crossing. That, as I have already said, is a very sensible and pragmatic approach but it does not explain by what moral right a pedestrian should always be subservient to the motorist

Of course I do but with the current huge dichotomy between the two parties I don't think that a single organisation can represent both of them

I have never seen a PeLiCon Crossing which defaults to pedestrian priority

so that a motorist might have to wait even if the road is clear.

They always force the pedestrian to wait. They are biased in favour of the motorist. Why?

At a zebra crossing a pedestrian has priority. Which rather implies that elsewhere the motorist has priority. And there is a damn site more else where than there are zebra crossings.

Don't get me wrong on this. I am only talking about urban areas not trunk and arterial roads. Nor am i asking, as someone is sure to suggest, that a pedestrian should be able to step blindly of the kerb with impunity. But I am becoming increasingly annoyed by the way a town can be cut in two by a river of traffic, none of whose drivers gives a XXXX for the pedestrian stranded on the wrong side.

Katie Shephard, acting general manager, Brake says: “Speed is the number one killer on our roads. In communities, traffic must travel at no faster than 20mph and slower outside schools and homes

Joking apart though and let's face it, BRAKE are getting to be a bigger joke, week by week.

Should we really be letting these people into our schools,teaching kids gross untruths like this, when even the DfT admit that speed isn't the biggest killer?
Surely if kids are taught the wrong facts at an early age, they will be hard pushed to learn the real truth.

So we have a generation growing up to believe, that once they pass their tests and get out on the open road, that by sticking rigidly to a speed limit, they have negated the BIGGEST killer out on the roads and need mainly to concentrate on this small factor in order to be safe.

If I was a parent, I would want these charlatens chased out of the playground wearing dunces caps.

So 20 mph isn't slow enough outside schools and homes then, they want to tighten the screw even further

How long before they're advocating the return of the red flag?

The road
•Speed limits are no higher than 20mph for villages and towns, and lower limits on residential roads.
•Traffic-free zones are in all communities so children can roam.
•Pavements and safe crossing places are on all community streets.
•Separate cycle paths are next to all road or rail routes.
•Bus services are in all communities, with links to train stations and times.
•Large trucks are restricted in all communities, by size and time and roads.
•Speed limits are no higher than 40mph for single carriageway rural roads, and 20mph for narrow country lanes.
•Speed limits are no higher than 60mph for two or more lane trunk roads.
•High speed rail is available for passengers and freight, for all long distance routes.
•There are restrictions on road use, when sustainable, safer transport options are accessible.
The vehicle
•Maximum engine capacity is limited to within the maximum speed limit (do they know what that actually means? I don't).
•All vehicles are driven by sustainable power with zero emissions.
•Finger-print locks are on all vehicles, so only drivers insured and licensed to drive can do so.
•Speed limit activated speed limiters (ISA), limit vehicles to within the posted speed limit.
•Alcolocks and druglocks are on all vehicles.
•Seat belt locks are on all vehicles, preventing the vehicle being driven unless belts are fastened.
•Occupant crash protection measures are on all buses as well as all other vehicles, such as 3-point belts.
•Occupant and pedestrian safety design measures are required by law to latest, highest standards.
•Telematics are in vehicles to record driving style, distance and times.
•Compulsory qualifications are required for vehicle mechanics, renewed in line with technological developments.
•Vehicles must have compulsory servicing, in line with manufacturer recommendations on timing and standards. An on-board clock prevents a vehicle starting if a service date is missed.
•Vehicles can’t be started if the on-board computer identifies a safety critical defect between services.
•Safety-critical design problems are solved, such as temperamental wheel fixings on large vehicles.
The driver
•Compulsory road crash awareness education is in nurseries and schools for all ages, warning against driving.
•Driver licensing age is raised to above the teens, to allow for cognitive development.
•Driver licensing involves compulsory training by a professional over several years.
•Driver training focuses on hazard and crash awareness and prevention measures.
•Driver licensing requires mental as well as physical health assessment, to rigorous standards
•New drivers are banned from driving at night and on the fastest roads.
•New drivers are banned from carrying passengers other than their own family members.
•Health screening for eyesight and impairing medical conditions is required regularly for all drivers.
•There is regular compulsory re-testing of drivers.
•There is a ban on all levels of drink driving, with a trace element of no more than 20mg per 100ml of blood allowable
•There is a ban on use of any impairing drug while driving, legal or illegal.
•There is a ban on mobile phones and pagers of all kinds while driving.
•There is a ban on overtaking free-moving traffic, except on multi-lane roads.
•Sleep and journey break laws are in line with academic advice on required rest, for all drivers.
Enforcement
•Cameras on roads and in vehicles can identify vehicles, drivers, and any offences that can still feasibly be committed, such as red light running or mobile phone use.
•Large numbers of highly trained traffic police are armed with relevant detecting equipment, to patrol and identify offences that can still be committed.
•Traffic police have the power to seize dangerous vehicles and prohibit dangerous drivers.
•A highly resourced agency enforces company fleet safety, helping companies implement safety requirements.
•A crash investigation agency investigates and records crash numbers and causes and prevents future tragedies.
•Life bans are implemented for life-threatening and life-taking drivers.

...
Read their manifesto, some sensible goals but some is quite scary (selected scariness in bold).

...
Read their manifesto, some sensible goals but some is quite scary (selected scariness in bold).