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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 16:29 
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A quick poser (or maybe not so quick)....

Anyone know the rules for lighting of vehicles (particularly the front) ?

I've had a bug bear about cars being driven with front fog lights on when it's crystal clear conditions, my other is these led and strip lights that are cropping up more and more on cars. Have seen them in a varietyy of colours but the most common I've seen is blue often behind the grill or on the washer jets, looking in the likes of Halfords, Motormania etc the packaging carries the warning - "Track Use / Off Road Use Only"

The latest I've seen is these bloody things atached to a strobe.

I was on the A12 a few nights back and saw blue lights, wasn't sure what they were so moved over into lane one. car behind me stayed in lane two, the car I'd originally seen came up at quite a pace (in lane two) with blue led's flashing and sat on the tail of the car that was behind me, this car promptly hauls over nearly into me.

I can only assume that they thought it was an unmarked car.

Unfortunately the number plate was non standard so not readable, Chelmsford Plod not at all helpfull.

Any Thoughts ???

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 16:38 
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Safety Engineer wrote:
I was on the A12 a few nights back and saw blue lights, wasn't sure what they were so moved over into lane one. car behind me stayed in lane two, the car I'd originally seen came up at quite a pace (in lane two) with blue led's flashing and sat on the tail of the car that was behind me, this car promptly hauls over nearly into me.

If the interior lights were on a strobe as well you could at least get an idea of how much burberry the driver was wearing.

What is the attraction of putting all this junk on a car?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 17:03 
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Flashing blue lights on anything but official emercency transport/use is definitely illegal.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 17:13 
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Gatsobait wrote:
What is the attraction of putting all this junk on a car?

You'll find the answer to that question by clicking >HERE<

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 17:43 
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Safety Engineer wrote:
A quick poser (or maybe not so quick)....

Anyone know the rules for lighting of vehicles (particularly the front) ?

I've had a bug bear about cars being driven with front fog lights on when it's crystal clear conditions, my other is these led and strip lights that are cropping up more and more on cars. Have seen them in a varietyy of colours but the most common I've seen is blue often behind the grill or on the washer jets, looking in the likes of Halfords, Motormania etc the packaging carries the warning - "Track Use / Off Road Use Only"

The latest I've seen is these bloody things atached to a strobe.

I was on the A12 a few nights back and saw blue lights, wasn't sure what they were so moved over into lane one. car behind me stayed in lane two, the car I'd originally seen came up at quite a pace (in lane two) with blue led's flashing and sat on the tail of the car that was behind me, this car promptly hauls over nearly into me.

I can only assume that they thought it was an unmarked car.

Unfortunately the number plate was non standard so not readable, Chelmsford Plod not at all helpfull.

Any Thoughts ???


1989 Uk Lighting regs define them as this:
"Front fog lamp" A lamp used to improve the illumination of the road in front of a motor vehicle in conditions of seriously reduced visibility.
"Front position lamp" A lamp used to indicate the presence and width of a vehicle when viewed from the front.

As usual, the wording is complex, but it goes on to say this:
Quote:
Requirements about the use of headlamps and front fog lamps
25.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle which is fitted with obligatory dipped-beam headlamps unless every such lamp is kept lit-

(a) during the hours of darkness, except on a road which is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 by virtue of a system of street lighting when it is lit; and

(b) in seriously reduced visibility.

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1) do not apply-

(a) in the case of a motor vehicle fitted with one obligatory dipped-beam headlamp or a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if a main-beam headlamp or a front fog lamp is kept lit;

(b) in the case of a motor vehicle, other than a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination, fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if-

(i) a pair of main-beam headlamps is kept lit; or

(ii) in seriously reduced visibility, a pair of front fog lamps which is so fitted that the outermost part of the illuminated area of each lamp in the pair is not more than 400 mm from the outer edge of the vehicle is kept lit;
(c) to a vehicle being drawn by another vehicle;

(d) to a vehicle while being used to propel a snow plough; or

(e) to a vehicle which is parked.

(3) For the purposes of this regulation a headlamp shall not be regarded as lit if its intensity is reduced by a dim-dip device.


I used front LED's, green in colour to aid convoying abroad at night. You can see the LED's in your mirror, and know that the vehicle behind is still keeping up with you.
However, the regulations permit this providing certain criteria are met regarding positioning. Green is not too intense. I would not countanence blue LED's as the light is rather piercing and distracting, but the regs. are not clear, even on this.
A BiB may well tell you different.
I was reliably informed that young ladies associate blue LED's with sexual prowess - but I doubt the accuracy of this information more than the informant!! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 17:52 
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If you want a giggle, click here:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 18:07 
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This illustrates the problem - the light intensity doubles, AND the low position of most fogs throw the reflection further forward.
In this view, the lights are shining down a slope - but on a flat road, the reflections reach out further forwards.
Image

Image

I for one would like to see a much more strict policy on drivers using fogs when there is oncoming traffic.
On narrow lanes they DO light up the verge, so I would not ban their use completely.

Once more there should be a publicity campaign. A NIGHTLY 5 minute slot on TV as seen in France!! :)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 19:01 
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Before we all be accused of a witch-hunt lets not get too intolerant to other road users.

I was into the custom car scene in the 70s. I saw persecution of custom car owners by the police. Some guys hooked accessory fog lights up to the brake lights and got taken to court. Now eye level brake lights are standard fit.

If a guy wants to fit neons to his sills let him get on with it. Maybe they look stupid to us but who are we to judge.

I agree fogs should only be used in the fog but factory fitted front systems do not dazzle

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 19:14 
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It's not the modifying scene that I object too, it's that some of the lights in terms of colour positioning and the fact that some are on strobe/pulsing is confusing to other road users (especially at night) and like in my case may have caused an accident - I see no need to have blue (or any other colour) strobing lights on a car on the public highway.

What they choose to do at shows is up to them.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 20:47 
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Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations

Part III:

RVLR wrote:
27. No person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road any vehicle on which any lamp, hazard warning signal device or warning beacon of a type specified in an item in column 2 of the Table below is used in a manner specified in that item in column 3.

And at the bottom of the table:
RVLR wrote:
[column 1]11
[column 2]Any other lamp
[column 3]Used so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road.


Looks like that would cover it.

And if it doesn't, Part II [url=http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_3.htm#(Tii)i3lampshowsteadylight]Lamps to show a steady light[/url]:

RVLR wrote:
Lamps to show a steady light
13.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light.
(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply in respect of-
(a) a direction indicator
(b) a headlamp fitted to an emergency vehicle;
(c) a warning beacon or special warning lamp;
(d) a lamp or illuminated sign fitted to a vehicle used for police purposes;
(e) a green warning lamp used as an anti-lock brake indicator; or
(f) lamps forming part of a traffic sign.



Now I have read this again it appears that it is perfectly legal to dazzle people with your reversing lights, hazard warning lights (but not indicators) or blue/green warning beacons. :roll:

Oh and it's not legal to flash hazard warning lights to let you know the doors are locked/unlocked. And the "More" busses running around Poole/Bournemouth with scrolling signs are not legal! Hmm...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 09:49 
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Safety Engineer wrote:
looking in the likes of Halfords, Motormania etc the packaging carries the warning - "Track Use / Off Road Use Only"


The subject has beed covered in depth here and elsewhere.

Basic points.

You can't show red to the front or white to the rear (except when reversing).

You can't have anything which moves (attached to wiper arms is a no).

You can't have anything which flashes (apart from the usual indicators, hazards, headlamps).

You can show what you like to the underside.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 03:20 
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On quiet, unlit country lanes at night I tend to turn on every forward-facing lamp I've got. Every little helps. I always turn off main beams & foglights for oncoming traffic though.

I've found rear foglights to be useful when reversing in pitch dark conditions too.

I don't see a problem using the foglights whenever they help you to see where you're going.

Driving around town with front foglights on was a 90's fad, wasn't it? Do people still do this? I don't see many these days.

And blue LED washer jets are just sad. I know they're probably the only "modification" that these people can afford, but why bother?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:16 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
25.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle which is fitted with obligatory dipped-beam headlamps unless every such lamp is kept lit-

(a) during the hours of darkness, except on a road which is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 by virtue of a system of street lighting when it is lit; and

(b) in seriously reduced visibility.


To me, that means that you must turn your headlights on in seriously reduced visibility.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 22:28 
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antera309 wrote:
Driving around town with front foglights on was a 90's fad, wasn't it? Do people still do this? I don't see many these days.


Come spend a day/night in and around London and you'll see more than enough, unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 00:10 
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There was a fad for a while to have a light/lights of various colours shining underneath the car so that underneath the car appeared bathed in a pool of light -seems to have died a death.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 00:36 
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The OP is from Essex and from my recent trips down that way I can safely say that said fad has /not/ died a death.

I've seen this sort of thing at car shows and in the right situation they can look good (there was a recent charity show at southend raising money for children in need, and there were some PT Cruisers with chromed engine bays and these sort of things installed inside reflecting off the chrome. Not something I'd do myself but as the PT Cruiser looks rediculous anyway it carried these modifications quite well. There was also a bunch of chav saxos and 106s with similar mods that looked shit.

I spent a long time trying to find a law that made blue LEDs illegal, but it seems that unless they are flashing there is no law against it :(

The one thing I did notice is that the PT cruiser crowd left all their bling switched off until they'd parked up wheras the chav crowd left them on whilst using the public road. Also one of them drove into the back of my car when I stopped at a T junction.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:32 
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Ziltro wrote:
Now I have read this again it appears that it is perfectly legal to dazzle people with your reversing lights, hazard warning lights (but not indicators) or blue/green warning beacons. :roll:


So when the chav with his foglights on starts tailgating you the best (and now legal) response is to put the clutch down and dazzle him back with reverse lights?


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