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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 16:20 
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To You and me? Not a lot.
To a "youf" in a souped up Nova or Saxo, not a lot, but to the sort of average joe drivers who are knocking holes in the wall..... just maybe... maybe it might save them some body damage - and if there was anyone coming the other way, then maybe even a life.
This has come about because driver training and the test has not progressed in line with car performance.

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 Post subject: Holes in the Wall
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 18:26 
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Having just seen this thread, I was wondering have the council been asked to provide "Flashing Warning Signs" about the bend ahead as there is no point in saying drivers should be aware of the bend as they can probably see it as they approach it but very likely they don,t see how tight the bend is until it is too late.

Or have "Brake" not yet got involved and demanded a "Speed Camera" that will solve all problems at this bend?

Has anyone thought about putting "Chevron" markers on the wall as anything which would be used as a warning to approaching vehicles must be worth trying rather than waiting for another accident to happen?

Warning signs are cheaper than cameras but as we all know "Signs Cost Money and Don,t Create REVENUE" but Cameras do!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 19:34 
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Part of the difficulty here is that you dont have to exceed the limit to get into difficulty through inexperience.

The view over the section of road is definitely misleading - there are two bends in quick succession - a righthander at the bottom of a steepish hill which snakes down from a lefthander with a 30 mph advisory, which then climbs into a longer lefthander - which then dips again before it climbs up the far side.
Get it wrong in the first, and you carry the error into the second! :o
The 30 mph advisory is decidedly slow - even the most cautious driver can manage 40 without any discomfort.
It's the speed carried down the hill which is a problem to some, as they go too fast into the righthand, and find it tightens towards the end.... the kink which is shown in the photograph.
It's not even easy to illustrate what is wrong, BECAUSE the view is misleading.

In trying to see what is wrong, I have driven the whole section at 60mph - including the 30 advisory - but because I know the road so well, I experience no untoward events, as I am correctly positioned for every aspect. A flashing warning, or chevrons might only serve to perplex the un-initiated and unskilled driver, and divert attention.
The best answer would be to re-line the road, and remove the kink, at the same time making the dualled uphill lane into a single lane, with hatched central median.
This would solve a lesser potential problem of vehicles who are turning into a farm/guesthouse, who at present have to wait in the middle lane, just around a bend where vehicles launch themselves at speed to pass slower vehicles.
Image
Imagine the view from the left side of the road, and a vehicle waiting to turn right just next to where the red car is. :(

This is the result of one overenthusiastic Londoner, who appeared to have clipped thefar verge, before over compensating, and uprooting a tree stump and a traffic sign!
Image
In the far distance you can see the top of the hill where the 30mph advisory leads into the downhill section.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 21:53 
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mpaton2004 wrote:
reduce the speed limit and install a safety camera ;)


Or straighten the road.

I'd rather see a reduced limit and speed camera myself, sadly we have to wait until people are killed to get that done.

We can straighten roads until the cows come home, but there'll always be more bends.

What's more, bends are pretty.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:12 
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Sadly sooner or later when somebody is on the foot/cyclepath, or coming the other way, one of these collisions with the wall will instead be a head on collision with another vehicle, or a family out walking or cycling - it has already happened elsewhere in Cumbria.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2223416.stm
2 people died following a collision between two cars - one of which struck a group of ramblers. Four other ramblers were badly injured. :(
However the topography will ensure no straightening ever takes place - the cost and the objections to despoiling the landscape will stop it ever being suggested.

The limit will shortly be reduced - to 50 mph. Unfortunately the moronic council officer who likely proposed this (along with other local disastrous road schemes in our area) thinks this will solve things.
It wont - 50 is still fast enough for an inexperienced driver to come to grief because they are unprepared for the manner in which the road twists and turns.
On their own, they will likely escape injury as do the other 7 - 10 drivers who hit the walls each year... until one of them is unlucky enough to hit another vehicle or road user. :oops:

I should say that cars dont just run out of road, they spin into the wall, making a characteristic double hole in the wall as the car spins out of the first collision, then strikes the wall with the rear end.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:22 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
However the topography will ensure no straightening ever takes place - the cost and the objections to despoiling the landscape will stop it ever being suggested.


Damn straight too, why reck our countryside just so people can go faster around corners?

I reckon these types of drivers are deciding to drive at the limit of adhesion anyway, and will do so however slight the bend in the road; the way I see some people going round corners its obvious they're pushing it on purpose.

They just need to slow down.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 23:24 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
until one of them is unlucky enough to hit another vehicle or road user. :oops:


...or pedestrian...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 00:35 
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weepej wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
However the topography will ensure no straightening ever takes place - the cost and the objections to despoiling the landscape will stop it ever being suggested.


Damn straight too, why reck our countryside just so people can go faster around corners?

I reckon these types of drivers are deciding to drive at the limit of adhesion anyway, and will do so however slight the bend in the road; the way I see some people going round corners its obvious they're pushing it on purpose.

They just need to slow down.


:? :lol:

The countryside wouldn't be recked :lol: as you put it. The road would still be no wider than it is now, and after construction the surrounding pasture would be reinstated.

That's what I wreckon anyway :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 02:32 
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weepej wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
until one of them is unlucky enough to hit another vehicle or road user. :oops:


...or pedestrian...

I include pedestrians as road users - and they should be tested to ensure familiarity with the Highway Code too! :wink:

The path at the side of the road is a combined foot/cycle path - and the council sweep it regularly, and cut back vegetation.
It's well used by locals and tourists alike - and the occasional horse and rider too!

Not all the accidents are down to boyracer types - many are cars with four occupants - and the driver out for a scenic drive fails to allow for the extra weight in the back.
There is spirited driving, but usually at night when the road is less busy, and drivers feel able to put one set of wheels on the centre line, which would be the better line to take.
As I said previously speed is not an issue - as recorded by our local Safety Camera Partnership in a speed survey.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 20:18 
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SigmaMotion wrote:
The countryside wouldn't be recked :lol: as you put it. The road would still be no wider than it is now, and after construction the surrounding pasture would be reinstated.

That's what I wreckon anyway :D


Where do you stop then? How many corners do you straighten? What about those that you can't? And who's going to pay?

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.4 ... &z=13&om=1


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 22:13 
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see here

So there you can see the layout.
Nearly all the accidents happen going east (right) to west (left).
Drivers going eastbound have regular accidents on the up slope - including a fatal last year when a young driver failed to merge where the two lanes become one, and struck an oncoming 4x4 and a minibus.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 00:47 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
see here

So there you can see the layout.
Nearly all the accidents happen going east (right) to west (left).
Drivers going eastbound have regular accidents on the up slope - including a fatal last year when a young driver failed to merge where the two lanes become one, and struck an oncoming 4x4 and a minibus.


Undoubtably straighting it out is one way of reducing this (unless the accidents start happening at the brow of the hill as people overtake/take off), in which case I figure you'd want to flatten it out as well resulting in a rather large cut).

But then I reckon slowing people down would have the same effect, without the environmental impact, at the same time allowing those that enjoy a bit of curvature without one back wheel off the ground to continue to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: Holes in the Wall
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 18:51 
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Stormin wrote:
Having just seen this thread, I was wondering have the council been asked to provide "Flashing Warning Signs" about the bend ahead as there is no point in saying drivers should be aware of the bend as they can probably see it as they approach it but very likely they don,t see how tight the bend is until it is too late.

Or have "Brake" not yet got involved and demanded a "Speed Camera" that will solve all problems at this bend?

Has anyone thought about putting "Chevron" markers on the wall as anything which would be used as a warning to approaching vehicles must be worth trying rather than waiting for another accident to happen?

Warning signs are cheaper than cameras but as we all know "Signs Cost Money and Don,t Create REVENUE" but Cameras do!!!!!!


I thought safe speed was against speed cameras?


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 Post subject: Re: Holes in the Wall
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 18:53 
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Stormin wrote:
Having just seen this thread, I was wondering have the council been asked to provide "Flashing Warning Signs" about the bend ahead as there is no point in saying drivers should be aware of the bend as they can probably see it as they approach it but very likely they don,t see how tight the bend is until it is too late.

Or have "Brake" not yet got involved and demanded a "Speed Camera" that will solve all problems at this bend?

Has anyone thought about putting "Chevron" markers on the wall as anything which would be used as a warning to approaching vehicles must be worth trying rather than waiting for another accident to happen?

Warning signs are cheaper than cameras but as we all know "Signs Cost Money and Don,t Create REVENUE" but Cameras do!!!!!!


I thought safe speed was against speed cameras?

But then again reality is don't speed and don't "raise revenue" by paying fines like don't pay bills, if you don't want to raise revenue.

And white lines, where it looks like there is snow and fog?

Which is the same problem where I am, the white lines are very hard to see where there is fog and rain.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 19:04 
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Slow down then.
You are supposed to be driving with regard to the conditions.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 21:51 
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jomukuk wrote:
Slow down then.
You are supposed to be driving with regard to the conditions.


Yes, indeed.

A pity the idiots got rid of all the cat's eyes, isn't it? :x

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 17:10 
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jomukuk wrote:
Slow down then.
You are supposed to be driving with regard to the conditions.


Jom slow down :wink: and tell us who you are replying to?

But checking facts before replying, well show you that driving well under the speed limit, you still cannot see the white lines where I am.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 18:25 
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crw wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
Slow down then.
You are supposed to be driving with regard to the conditions.


Jom slow down :wink: and tell us who you are replying to?

But checking facts before replying, well show you that driving well under the speed limit, you still cannot see the white lines where I am.


Yes, but you did not say they were invisible even at low speeds.
And who needs them anyway, keep left young man. What do you do on roads with no markings ?
Stop ?

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:06 
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jomukuk wrote:
crw wrote:
jomukuk wrote:
Slow down then.
You are supposed to be driving with regard to the conditions.


Jom slow down :wink: and tell us who you are replying to?

But checking facts before replying, well show you that driving well under the speed limit, you still cannot see the white lines where I am.


Yes, but you did not say they were invisible even at low speeds.
And who needs them anyway, keep left young man. What do you do on roads with no markings ?
Stop ?


Who needs white lines jom?

How good is your driving skills bad, very bad or ahhhhhhhhh?

And do you stop and read comments before replying?

As I didn't mentioned low speeds, I said you cannot see the white lines where I am and I didn't mentioned I was a young man.

But thanks calling me a young man :D


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